Thought Assad has invited the Russians to help, nobody in power has invited NATO.
Syria = None of our business, let them get on with it, whoever wins, wins.
Terrible that people are being killed, that's on their conscious not mine.
Let's face it when we 'help' countries they end up double fucked.
Putin
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
It has the real world.paolo wrote:it hasn't been proved at allRalph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
Saddam Hussien did use chemical weapons on his own people. When you say it was 'ruse' it sounds like you think he didn't.The Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
You can criticise 'the wests' foreign policies & double standards whilst also realising that Putin is an authoritarian despot. In fact if you're going to criticise 'the west' it's a completely bizarre to then turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities.
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Re: Putin
I recall him using them against the Kurds in the North of the Country, before the 1st gulf war.Ralph wrote:Saddam Hussien did use chemical weapons on his own people. When you say it was 'rouse' it sounds like you think he didn't.The Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
You can criticise 'the wests' foreign policies & double standards whilst also realising that Putin is an authoritarian despot. In fact if you're going to criticise 'the west' it's a completely bizarre to then turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities.
As far as I'm aware there has never been a Kurdistan apart from the area named than in Iran.
Seems to me that are the ones wanting stuff that doesn't belong to them.
- Roddy
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Re: Putin
And the super gun into it as well.Fug1 wrote:I recall him using them against the Kurds in the North of the Country, before the 1st gulf war.Ralph wrote:Saddam Hussien did use chemical weapons on his own people. When you say it was 'rouse' it sounds like you think he didn't.The Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
You can criticise 'the wests' foreign policies & double standards whilst also realising that Putin is an authoritarian despot. In fact if you're going to criticise 'the west' it's a completely bizarre to then turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities.
As far as I'm aware there has never been a Kurdistan apart from the area named than in Iran.
Seems to me that are the ones wanting stuff that doesn't belong to them.
You can only live in the world you know.The rest is just wishful thinking or paranoia.
"We shall not go to Canossa!"
"We shall not go to Canossa!"
- Hillman avenger
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Re: Putin
Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
Listen to Talksport and let it be a lesson to you
- m4 colin
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Re: Putin
So Reuters and your blessed BBC and others are not good enough sources for you ? your sticking to the avalanche of lies from the the like of Kerry and Clinton and that gang of murderers thieves and torturers at the UN ?m4 colin wrote:Howabout hereHillman avenger wrote:Where on earth do you get these ideas?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188
http://gerarddirect.com/2013/05/06/un-a ... nt-forces/
http://rense.com/general96/syriafalse.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria ... 9Z20130505
Shows you for what you are!
I heard gods fast but I'd have to go up against him before I believe it
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Re: Putin
You don't believe stuff the U.N. says do yer?Hillman avenger wrote:Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
If everybody just kept out of other people's business we would all be better off.
- Roddy
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Re: Putin
The happiest day of your live was when Idi Amin offered bananas to this country.Hillman avenger wrote:Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
You can only live in the world you know.The rest is just wishful thinking or paranoia.
"We shall not go to Canossa!"
"We shall not go to Canossa!"
- m4 colin
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Re: Putin
Of course he does, he's a Globalist and if he gets what he wants he will be among the first against the wallFug1 wrote:You don't believe stuff the U.N. says do yer?Hillman avenger wrote:Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
.
I heard gods fast but I'd have to go up against him before I believe it
- The Tick
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Re: Putin
Hillman avenger wrote:Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
It is the same. Prior to the 2003 Iraq war, Saddam was accsed of stockpiling chemical weapons, even though none were uncovered by invading forces in the following years. The accusations against Assad are in the same vein. A cynical attempt to rally support against a government that doesn't pander to our interests. Al through deceit and subterfuge.
The UN will do whatever the USA tells it to. There is no justification for overthrowing Assad in Syria any more than there is for attacking Israel for its own use of chemical weapons.
And before we go to town on Putin, maybe a word on the numerous bombing campaigns throughout Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan by the NATO led alliance? Including the bombing of MSF hospitals.
Or the use of chemical weapons in the 2003 Iraq War (irony of ironies) by the USA.
This isn't about the West's concern over human rights. It's about containing nations that won't submit to our demands. The double standards of it all is a big part of why there is no great public demand to stick it to Putin.
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Re: Putin
Well said Mr Tick!The Tick wrote:Hillman avenger wrote:Not the sameThe Tick wrote:the chemical weapons accusations against Assad aren't that different to those used against saddam.Ralph wrote:It's been conclusively proved that (Putin backed) Assad used chemical weapons. So why such slavish support for him & Putin from some on the right?m4 colin wrote:Seeing as how its been conclusively proved so called moderate anti Assad forces are the ones who used the chemical weapons I think you do!Hillman avenger wrote:Nobody is in love with Islam.
And I don't need education from you about Syria. Or for that matter, anything else.
Seems if you support a load of fascist nutters you can do no wrong as far as the 'alt right' are concerned. Butchering your own people & murdering dissidents not a problem. The 'alt right' is a moral vacumn.
Just a ruse to justify intervention, regime change. Which will lead to the same chaos as Iraq and Libya. It's all crocodile tears. Otherwise where's the international drive to stop israels use of chemicals against the Palestinians.
It's all double standards and hollow bleating on the west'a part.
1. Nobody disputed that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds
2.In this case the UN documented a number of cases where it had been used .
It is the same. Prior to the 2003 Iraq war, Saddam was accsed of stockpiling chemical weapons, even though none were uncovered by invading forces in the following years. The accusations against Assad are in the same vein. A cynical attempt to rally support against a government that doesn't pander to our interests. Al through deceit and subterfuge.
The UN will do whatever the USA tells it to. There is no justification for overthrowing Assad in Syria any more than there is for attacking Israel for its own use of chemical weapons.
And before we go to town on Putin, maybe a word on the numerous bombing campaigns throughout Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan by the NATO led alliance? Including the bombing of MSF hospitals.
Or the use of chemical weapons in the 2003 Iraq War (irony of ironies) by the USA.
This isn't about the West's concern over human rights. It's about containing nations that won't submit to our demands. The double standards of it all is a big part of why there is no great public demand to stick it to Putin.
- The Tick
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Re: Putin
War is a dirty business, whoever fights it. It's a bit pointless to hold one particular side against one standard while absolving another side altogether.Ralph wrote: Saddam Hussien did use chemical weapons on his own people. When you say it was 'ruse' it sounds like you think he didn't.
You can criticise 'the wests' foreign policies & double standards whilst also realising that Putin is an authoritarian despot. In fact if you're going to criticise 'the west' it's a completely bizarre to then turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities.
What Putin has done is move Syria closer to stability, and away from a terrorist led insurgency. Which should eventually end the war, and prevent Syria turning into another Iraq or Libya. Our obsession with regime change has stopped us learning the valuable lessons of the Iraq and Libya disasters.
When the West conducts wars there are violations of human rights. Same goes for Russia, China, Israel and others.
The only reasonable conclusion to this war is the maintenance of the Assad government and the dissolution of the terrorist groups trying to destabilise his country. Putin is preventing Syria from falling into a Libya-type abyss.
- m4 colin
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Re: Putin
Not bad Tick and quite possibly true...... The other possibility is that their were plenty of chemical weapons in Iraq and every drum of it could be traced back to Bush /Cheney/ Rumsfeld companies so it was quietly removed and disposed of by one or other of the huge mercenary armies at work in Iraq. and embedded media
in US/ British regular forces were kept well away from it. Ive no evidence to support this theory its Just hearsay
in US/ British regular forces were kept well away from it. Ive no evidence to support this theory its Just hearsay
I heard gods fast but I'd have to go up against him before I believe it
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
Man sentenced to 3 years in penal colony for insulting Putin. Remaining leader of Russia when you've run the economy into the ground is a dirty business.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurl
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurl
Last edited by Ralph on Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
That's not really good enough is it. You wouldn't accept that line in defence of a western foreign intervention so why because it's Putin?The Tick wrote:War is a dirty business, whoever fights it. It's a bit pointless to hold one particular side against one standard while absolving another side altogether.Ralph wrote: Saddam Hussien did use chemical weapons on his own people. When you say it was 'ruse' it sounds like you think he didn't.
You can criticise 'the wests' foreign policies & double standards whilst also realising that Putin is an authoritarian despot. In fact if you're going to criticise 'the west' it's a completely bizarre to then turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities.
What Putin has done is move Syria closer to stability, and away from a terrorist led insurgency. Which should eventually end the war, and prevent Syria turning into another Iraq or Libya. Our obsession with regime change has stopped us learning the valuable lessons of the Iraq and Libya disasters.
When the West conducts wars there are violations of human rights. Same goes for Russia, China, Israel and others.
The only reasonable conclusion to this war is the maintenance of the Assad government and the dissolution of the terrorist groups trying to destabilise his country. Putin is preventing Syria from falling into a Libya-type abyss.
- The Tick
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Re: Putin
It's about consistent standards. Who are we to condemn others for doing what we do?
It is good enough. Wars are not fought with gentlemanly handshakes.
In an ideal world, no side would fight wars let alone commit war crimes. This is not an ideal world. And there are wars that are necessary and those that are not. History has good examples of both.
The war waged by the west to destabilise Syria (just like Iraq and Libya) is countered by the war waged by Russia to clear up the mess created by the former.
It is good enough. Wars are not fought with gentlemanly handshakes.
In an ideal world, no side would fight wars let alone commit war crimes. This is not an ideal world. And there are wars that are necessary and those that are not. History has good examples of both.
The war waged by the west to destabilise Syria (just like Iraq and Libya) is countered by the war waged by Russia to clear up the mess created by the former.
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
You've been a constant critic of the wests foreign interventions & I've found myself (mostly) agreeing with you. Which is why I find your unwillingness to see any fault where Russia/Putin is concerned slightly odd.The Tick wrote:It's about consistent standards. Who are we to condemn others for doing what we do?
It is good enough. Wars are not fought with gentlemanly handshakes.
In an ideal world, no side would fight wars let alone commit war crimes. This is not an ideal world. And there are wars that are necessary and those that are not. History has good examples of both.
The war waged by the west to destabilise Syria (just like Iraq and Libya) is countered by the war waged by Russia to clear up the mess created by the former.
There doesn't seem to be nuance at all. Western interventions are illegal & led by war criminals for sinister reasons. Russia's interventions are for the greater good & bad stuff happens during war, so don't worry too much about the odd war crime.
- The Tick
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Re: Putin
No one is saying Putin is free of guilt. Only that the harshest voices of condemnation come from those who are in no moral position to do so.
I agree with Putin's actions because of realism, not ideology or a belief that there is a perfect solution to everything.
I agree with Putin's actions because of realism, not ideology or a belief that there is a perfect solution to everything.
- Ralph
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Re: Putin
And nobody in Russia dares say different.paolo wrote:putin is an angel of peace
who funds isis?
putin?
http://uk.businessinsider.com/list-of-p ... ing-2016-3
- Kowalski
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Re: Putin
You've previously condemned the Kurds and claimed you were against all violence but now agree with Putin's actions. Shocking hypocrisy.The Tick wrote:No one is saying Putin is free of guilt. Only that the harshest voices of condemnation come from those who are in no moral position to do so.
I agree with Putin's actions because of realism, not ideology or a belief that there is a perfect solution to everything.
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Re: Putin
Putin is blitzing the foriegn terrorists sent by US/UK/FRANCE/SAUDI/TURKEY to destroy a secular and stable SyriaKowalski wrote:You've previously condemned the Kurds and claimed you were against all violence but now agree with Putin's actions. Shocking hypocrisy.The Tick wrote:No one is saying Putin is free of guilt. Only that the harshest voices of condemnation come from those who are in no moral position to do so.
I agree with Putin's actions because of realism, not ideology or a belief that there is a perfect solution to everything.
You claim to be against islamic fanatasicm and violence yet your post suggests otherwise
Shocking hypocrisy!
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Re: Putin
Stop whinging!Ralph wrote:Man sentenced to 3 years in penal colony for insulting Putin. Remaining leader of Russia when you've run the economy into the ground is a dirty business.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurl
Putin smashed up your jihadi terrorists