You asked me a question I answered it. Do you want to ask another?Roy Twing wrote:Missed the vital word when re-reading and you beat me to it.Ralph wrote:Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.Roy Twing wrote:At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html
The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.
A successful obfuscation on your part.
Free Movement of People
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Re: Free Movement of People
- m4rkb
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Re: Free Movement of People
I was told today by someone reasonably in the know (ie in a job that would know) that many of these migrants pretendig to be tax paying contributors spend a large part of the day making claims one after the other on the grounds a certain percentage are accepted. The massive trump card is having a baby born here which opens the door for the parents regardless of where they come from as the child is now British.
I don't expect I've taught anyone anything they didn't wither know or suspect in the first place and the informant was Asian and fed up with it just as much as us 'racist' Brits.
I don't expect I've taught anyone anything they didn't wither know or suspect in the first place and the informant was Asian and fed up with it just as much as us 'racist' Brits.
- m4rkb
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Re: Free Movement of People
One other reason is the politicians in charge are not the ones the public really want despite apparently living in a democracy. Most candidates are chosen for us by central office in seats where the proverbial money with a certain coloured rosette would always win.Ralph wrote:It is a peculiar stance to take IMO but if it shared by others, possibly explains why the Tories made no effort to keep their promises on reducing net immigration to the tens of thousands.m4rkb wrote:I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.
Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.
This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.
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Re: Free Movement of People
Immigration that's unsustainable or isn't benefiting the country is a bad thing.Roy Twing wrote:At least we all seem to agree that mass immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html
The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.
- m4rkb
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Re: Free Movement of People
What's brought about this sudden change of opinion?
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Re: Free Movement of People
I haven't changed my opinion.m4rkb wrote:What's brought about this sudden change of opinion?
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Re: Free Movement of People
I'll admit you're one of the more rational ones on here from the left regarding this issue but your lack of any obvious criticism does lend itself to thinking you're in favour.
Others on the other hand are firmly in the 'shadenfreude' camp of enjoying watching it at every unsustainable level just as long as it annoys us which they know it does.
Others on the other hand are firmly in the 'shadenfreude' camp of enjoying watching it at every unsustainable level just as long as it annoys us which they know it does.
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Re: Free Movement of People
It was meant to be rhetorical, because you've made it clear that you agree that the (mass immigration) figures are a bad thing.Ralph wrote:You asked me a question I answered it. Do you want to ask another?Roy Twing wrote:Missed the vital word when re-reading and you beat me to it.Ralph wrote:Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.Roy Twing wrote:At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html
The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.
A successful obfuscation on your part.
E & OE
- carcinogen
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Re: Free Movement of People
We live in a bankrupt country. London aside. Britain is a relic. All this is just re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Who gives a fuck.
Fred Kite: I've got to be off. I can't stay here arguing. I've got a lot to do. Report to the Executive, check up on the pickets.
Mrs. Kite: From what I can see, the only time you ever jolly well *do* any work is when you're on strike.
Mrs. Kite: From what I can see, the only time you ever jolly well *do* any work is when you're on strike.
- Hillman avenger
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Re: Free Movement of People
I don't know wher you get these ideas from. It's one of the ones, like your droning on about diversity, which preoccupies you.m4rkb wrote:I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.
Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.
This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.
Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.
What it did do, was recognise as a fact of life that we have global economy and that freedom of labour to move to its optimum employer is a facet of that. Yes, they underestimated the degree to which eastern Europeans would take that opportunity.
They also recognised that if we wanted to stay in the EU we needed to accept it, and that in the majority of cases people moving here from within the EU would be making a contribution to our economy.
I don't think for a minute that what happened was in any way driven by spite. I do think they believed that some people would react negatively to it, but that didn't stop them.
Listen to Talksport and let it be a lesson to you
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Re: Free Movement of People
Horatio strikes again.
I'll let m4rk elaborate seeing as that gem of a reply was directed at him.
I'll let m4rk elaborate seeing as that gem of a reply was directed at him.
E & OE
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- Zambo
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Re: Free Movement of People
Hillman avenger wrote:
Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.
Don't always believe what you think, because sometimes its' a load of shite
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Re: Free Movement of People
As it was aimed at him, I expected m4rk to have suitably ridiculed horatio for that by now.Zambo wrote:Hillman avenger wrote:
Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.
E & OE
- Hillman avenger
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Re: Free Movement of People
Roy, m4krb and the rest, why on earth do you think Blair and co would have permitted immigration ( which in any event was an EU obligation) to UPSET people like you?
That belies a self-importance which is deeply unjustified.
Wind back the clock. At the time we passed on the interim period for eastern European immigration our economy was on the up, and we had skills shortages. Do you remember the building of Wembley?
We had an EU obligation to allow the immigration. All we did was to waive the interim limit opportunity. For the reasons I have given. When that expired we had no option of control anyway, just like the other 20-odd EU members.
Yes the forecast of how many would come was wrong.
But they didn't set out a government policy just to piss you off. I doubt though, that the fact that it did was not a cause of regret.
BTW it remains the case that we are free to limit or even cease non-EU immigration, which remains the majority of our immigration.
That belies a self-importance which is deeply unjustified.
Wind back the clock. At the time we passed on the interim period for eastern European immigration our economy was on the up, and we had skills shortages. Do you remember the building of Wembley?
We had an EU obligation to allow the immigration. All we did was to waive the interim limit opportunity. For the reasons I have given. When that expired we had no option of control anyway, just like the other 20-odd EU members.
Yes the forecast of how many would come was wrong.
But they didn't set out a government policy just to piss you off. I doubt though, that the fact that it did was not a cause of regret.
BTW it remains the case that we are free to limit or even cease non-EU immigration, which remains the majority of our immigration.
Listen to Talksport and let it be a lesson to you
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Re: Free Movement of People
I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
Don't always believe what you think, because sometimes its' a load of shite
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Re: Free Movement of People
A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
E & OE
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Re: Free Movement of People
Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
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Re: Free Movement of People
So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?Roy Twing wrote:A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
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Re: Free Movement of People
I know it's your hobby horse Ralph, and you take every opportunity to post it on here, despite everyone knowing it, but it's irrelevant to this particular argument.Ralph wrote:Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
Don't always believe what you think, because sometimes its' a load of shite
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Re: Free Movement of People
It is relevant because it's being stated as fact Labour had an open door immigration policy. The elephant in the room is that net immigration is significantly higher NOW than when Labour left office.Zambo wrote:I know it's your hobby horse Ralph, and you take every opportunity to post it on here, despite everyone knowing it, but it's irrelevant to this particular argument.Ralph wrote:Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
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Re: Free Movement of People
Ralph wrote:So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?Roy Twing wrote:A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
It was in direct response to horatio's rather daft comment that - "they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it" - I was merely highlighting that at least one prominent labour contributor did just that - the PLP was never likely to, of course, so this is the next best thing.
There is little doubt that blair's new labour 'opened the door' (a cursory glance at a timeline graph of net migration over the last 20+ years will illustrate that clearly enough for anyone), and Neather offered a reason why, which, of course, was promptly stamped upon.
E & OE
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Re: Free Movement of People
It was the Tories who signed us up to freedom of movement. What happened to immigration after was largely as a result of that. The Tories also fully supported the Eastern European countries joining the EU.Roy Twing wrote:Ralph wrote:So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?Roy Twing wrote:A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.Zambo wrote:I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.
It was in direct response to horatio's rather daft comment that - "they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it" - I was merely highlighting that at least one prominent labour contributor did just that - the PLP was never likely to, of course, so this is the next best thing.
There is little doubt that blair's new labour 'opened the door' (a cursory glance at a timeline graph of net migration over the last 20+ years will illustrate that clearly enough for anyone), and Neather offered a reason why, which, of course, was promptly stamped upon.
Andrew Neather's column wasn't stamped on. It used to get posted on here every couple of months.
There's no way you can sensibly argue Labour had a deliberate open door policy but the current Conservative government doesn't.
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Re: Free Movement of People
Conservative immigration policy - Talk tough then do the opposite.
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/12/ ... migration/
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/12/ ... migration/
- paolo
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Re: Free Movement of People
Let left and right unite together to condemn the free movement of people and the massive problems it has caused
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