The fall of UKIP - part 1

[Sid Pervcat]

I have a lot of family in the building trade and they have been undercut by foreign labour.

They haven't been good enough then

Good enough at what?

Either their jobs or their pricing

Let's assume the quality of work is the same, if there has been an influx of foreign labour that can afford to do a job cheaper due to lower cost of living standards in what way does that make the other "not good enough".

If a firm of surveyors opened up in your street using equally qualified foreign labour that lived 10 to a house on a rolling 3 month cycle and priced all your work at half the price would you consider yourself "not good enough" anymore?

Wouldn't happen, so your point is moot.

Good tradesmen are rarely out of work. Most foreign labour on sites are low skilled labourers working through agencies who often cost more to the employer but are preferred because they have half a brain and you get a decent day's work out of them. Unlike the moronic indigenous labourers who are generally thick as two short planks and idle fuckers.

Spot on

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Too many pikey entitled chav wanker brits can't even get the fucking basics right let alone understand how modern business is done. They deserve to starve the ignorant cunts

[warmleatherette]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

[Sadact7]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

[carcinogen]

Douglas Carswell looks like a fucking weido to me. I realize this opinion is based on nothing, but he just looks like a complete cunt. I garner this view from vast experience; from factories, from offices, from university seminars - I've seen them all. The bloke looks like a fucking twat multiplied.

[Absie]

Too many pikey entitled chav wanker brits can't even get the fucking basics right let alone understand how modern business is done. They deserve to starve the ignorant cunts

Yep....I work for a company that hires alot of agency people on the basic side of the company and the attitude between young brits and foreigners are huge. When people say brits are lazy, alot of the older brits take offence to it. But we are talking about young people between 18-25 who see factory work as beneath them. I seen so many young English guys come in and do few weeks work before they had enough and usually miss Sunday shift because they been partying all night saturday

[warmleatherette]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

[Sadact7]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

Well you can't, so your argument is flawed

[carcinogen]

your argument is flawed

Aren't all arguments flawed? Hence the arguing?

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

This board is flawed and I'll post evidence to prove it

[Sadact7]

your argument is flawed

Aren't all arguments flawed? Hence the arguing?

Go away

[Roy Twing]

A voice of sanity for a change:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... onald.html

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Twingo you simply present strawmen. List ten reasons to support your thesis

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Nigel Farage tells critics: swear loyalty to me or leave Ukip
Mr Farage tells The Telegraph he is prepared to become a more 'autocratic' leader to impose his will on the party

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -Ukip.html

The personality c**t continues.

Not long now Nigel



Very soon you will have all the power you need

[colinthewarriormonkey]

UCHIP

Fucking LOL

[colinthewarriormonkey]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

You do have a point there

My builder is fantastic - he's not the cheapest but that's because he prices the job correctly (I have a mate who is a surveyor that used him for a job and he told me to never, ever get rid of him because his costs are always bang on the money). He is a fucking genius at finding space where to me it looks like there is none, and the finish is impeccable

A friend of mine asked him for a quote to replace the lighting in their house and thought it was too expensive - they wanted god knows how many downlighters put in, and a quick look at screwfix showed that it would cost a fair bit just to buy the units, I told them as such.

Anyway, they ended up having their house redone completely - gutted it, building and extension etc and sunf hundreds of thousands into it (I'd have knocked the fucking thing down and started from scratch - it would have been cheaper) anyway, the builders fucked off and left it half done and with bizarre things like having tiled the whole bathroom, but actually hadn't put any plumbing in.

They had to come back to me and ask for my builders number so he can go and sort it out, whilst sorting out the fucking mess the others have made, a neighbour approached him and asked him to rebuild their house, so impressed were they by the quality of his work.

He's always got a waiting list.

The only thing that does irk him is the VAT, because, he's always going to be 20% more expensive than someone who isn't VAT registered - the threshold for paying VAT is only 79K turnover - so it encourages people to be dodgy

[warmleatherette]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

Well you can't, so your argument is flawed

I can say let's assume the quality of the work is the same, I already have.
My arguement is perfect, you said "they're not good enough" and so far the only thing not good enough is your arguement to back that statement up hence why you have to keep changing tack about quality and how much work a good tradesman gets.
It's nothing to do with being "good enough" it's to do with economics of other countries at the cost of ours.

[m4rkb]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

Well you can't, so your argument is flawed

I can say let's assume the quality of the work is the same, I already have.
My arguement is perfect, you said "they're not good enough" and so far the only thing not good enough is your arguement to back that statement up hence why you have to keep changing tack about quality and how much work a good tradesman gets.
It's nothing to do with being "good enough" it's to do with economics of other countries at the cost of ours.

^ This.

The overall plan is to 'equalise' all EU ecomonies. While the fatcats stands there pontificating about the benefits of the EU with their gold plated pensions - based on their overpaid positions in the first place whilst being completely insulated from any of the harm it does on the ground, it's the UK and other thriving economies (and their people) who are taking the hit by having their wages depressed by huge influxes from cheaper labour sources.

They have shown what little compassion they have for the damage it causes in Greece where they have destroyed a country but still hold it inside an EU straight jacket while they plough in with their precious project.

If half the tradesmen in the UK starve, lose their homes or are made unemployed they will be the last ones to care.

[Hillman avenger]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

Well you can't, so your argument is flawed

I can say let's assume the quality of the work is the same, I already have.
My arguement is perfect, you said "they're not good enough" and so far the only thing not good enough is your arguement to back that statement up hence why you have to keep changing tack about quality and how much work a good tradesman gets.
It's nothing to do with being "good enough" it's to do with economics of other countries at the cost of ours.

^ This.

The overall plan is to 'equalise' all EU ecomonies.

Where do you get that from?

While the fatcats stands there pontificating about the benefits of the EU with their gold plated pensions - based on their overpaid positions in the first place whilst being completely insulated from any of the harm it does on the ground, it's the UK and other thriving economies (and their people) who are taking the hit by having their wages depressed by huge influxes from cheaper labour sources.
Even though the Bank of England reckons not, of course your insights trump them.

They have shown what little compassion they have for the damage it causes in Greece where they have destroyed a country but still hold it inside an EU straight jacket while they plough in with their precious project.
Bollocks. Greece fabricated its data to get into the EU and ran a completely fucked-up economy for years on end. The Greeks have done it to themselves. Quite rightly the taxpayers in Germany refuse to keep spending billions to keep them afloat.
If half the tradesmen in the UK starve, lose their homes or are made unemployed they will be the last ones to care.

[m4rkb]

Since when has the bank of England had any insight into the UK's indigenous job market as opposed to the economy in general?

Every tradesman in Britain knows this influx of cheap labour is lowering their pay, as do many normally employed workers. You might have met one once or heard of a few one at one of your socialist dreamworld meetings but those at the coalface tell it as it is and they are suffering.

As regards the Greeks, yes they bought a lot of it on themselves but the EU will simply not let them off the hook. In the old days they would have simply devalued their currency and made everything Greek attractive and rebuilt themsleves. Now they are just up to their neck in debt they virtually cannot get out of.

The EU thinks it owns Greece. No wonder the inhabitants are upset.

[the rotary club]

Oh I see on one hand we have Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank Of England, using FACTS to express his view and on the other hand we have nom4rkb, Gobshite of Talkforum, using fuckwittery to express his view.

As ever you do struggle with simple FACTS.

[AlcoholBrazil]

Oh I see on one hand we have Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank Of England, using FACTS to express his view and on the other hand we have nom4rkb, Gobshite of Talkforum, using fuckwittery to express his view..

Ah the Old Rotarian School of Debating. When the arguement is lost , resort to personal abuse. Victory for m4ark methinks!

[the rotary club]

The tired old cliche of claiming victory on the internet.

I always hope you can do better than trite but you always let us down.

[Sadact7]

As I said, good tradesmen are rarely out of work

What bit of undercut are you not getting?

People pay for good quality and good reputation.

Shite workmen don't often get hired twice.

Again what bit of undercut are you not getting, I have already said let's assume the quality of work is the same.

Well you can't, so your argument is flawed

I can say let's assume the quality of the work is the same, I already have.
My arguement is perfect, you said "they're not good enough" and so far the only thing not good enough is your arguement to back that statement up hence why you have to keep changing tack about quality and how much work a good tradesman gets.
It's nothing to do with being "good enough" it's to do with economics of other countries at the cost of ours.

I've been pretty consistent, good tradesmen are rarely out of work. If you have to move with the market then fine, but there isn't an army of Eastern Europeans coming here undercutting good British tradesmen en masse and putting them out of work. And good tradesmen generally don't have to undercut themselves and put themselves out of pocket to ensure a full orderbook

[Hillman avenger]

Since when has the bank of England had any insight into the UK's indigenous job market as opposed to the economy in general?
So you DO think you know more than they do, purely from your own experience. No wonder you get so upset; you ,like Twing, would rather have reality adapt to you than the other way around.
Every tradesman in Britain knows this influx of cheap labour is lowering their pay, as do many normally employed workers. You might have met one once or heard of a few one at one of your socialist dreamworld meetings but those at the coalface tell it as it is and they are suffering.
OK. In the last 15 months I have employed- site prep workers; bricklayers; plasterers; electricians; plumbers; decorators; joiners; roofers..etc. I've chatted to them all, and not one has mentioned being under pressure from imported labour.One of the plumbers has a lead time of 3 months just to get him to price a job.Personal experience, I know, but so is yours.

As regards the Greeks, yes they bought a lot of it on themselves but the EU will simply not let them off the hook. In the old days they would have simply devalued their currency and made everything Greek attractive and rebuilt themselves. Now they are just up to their neck in debt they virtually cannot get out of.
Entirely of their own making. Tolerated, even encouraged, the black economy; built a massive and over-expensive state; lacked coherent government; no real export performance. They lied their way into the EU, with the help of Goldmann Sachs. They have been kept afloat by Germany for years. Ironically, if you were German you'd be on their equivalent of this forum ranting about them.
Oh and devaluation is not as simple as that. Many European countries, including us, are heavily invested in Greece and would suffer badly from devaluation.That's why the EU keep trying to find a way to keep them in the euro.
The EU thinks it owns Greece. No wonder the inhabitants are upset.
The EU to a large extent DOES own Greece.