Authoritarian Capitalism v. Liberal Capitalism

[carcinogen]

I'm not going to drill too far into this issue because I am on my 8th can of 'Frosty Jacks' cider. But I think it's important. Apols for spelling errors.

This is the nub: China has being doing fairly well for the past 45 years surpressing freedom of speech. If they need a hospital, they'll build and maintain one within 3 months. If some roads need to be built, the regime will construct it.

At what cost you ask? Freedom of speech and marching around. I am at a tipping point. As I suspect most are. And Liberalism is at tipping point too.

The question is, given the state of our services (in England): transport, health etc. Would you forgoe your right to protest and freedom of speech in return for guaranteed healthcare and a decent transport network?

It's a tough one because I was always up for the freedom to wave a flag around etc. But Libralism is in the brink becuase it's fucked itself up.

[kancutlawns]

The little people don't really have a say in what happens in society.

[carcinogen]

The little people don't really have a say in what happens in society.

That's why I cannot fathom all the bollocks. I'm happy just to exist, cuddle with my fat lady, write shit here, blah blah. Why all the fucking angst? One hundred years from now no one will ever know any of this ever happened! Bonkers. We're just passing time like we pass wind.

[kancutlawns]

The little people don't really have a say in what happens in society.

That's why I cannot fathom all the bollocks. I'm happy just to exist, cuddle with my fat lady, write shit here, blah blah. Why all the fucking angst? One hundred years from now no one will ever know any of this ever happened! Bonkers. We're just passing time like we pass wind.

I think it's because we're conditioned to be empowered, independent and assertive and when we can see our personal empires slipping through our fingers as we age, we want to hold onto external issues and have agendas about things really as you say are out of our control. I agree about all the NIMBY stuff and in so called less democratic societies things happen, whereas here, cunts like unions want to not just not make things happen, they want to disrupt the lives of those who actually make a net contribution in society like working for a living and having some modicum of quality of life which the large corporations, utilities, councils, national government and other bastards haven't yet seized.

[kevin04]

Excellent replies both Lawns and Carc.

A very good question.

If standard of living, exchange rates, and life moved back to pre-Brexit currency devaluations, and I was offered 1,200 pounds net after tax for working 30 hrs a week and the ability to live free but with access to a free internet, and life but one exception - I must vote for a Chinese Tory party, and never be able to challenge their views, and if I do, it would be a 25 quid fine- it would be a hard decision to make, and I'd probably agree to it. The trouble is with China, that the pay would be nowhere near that amount and the penalty for a fine would be much worse.

At the same time, the liberal-left are really beginning to grate. I agree with pretty much 95% of what they stand for, but something has gone way wrong. Of course issues like the gender of someone should be subjective and we should respect people who wish to be whatever they weren't born as, then so be it, let's do it and be civilised people. People who earn shed loads of course should pay a lot more in taxes to help the poorer in soceity, and if we really valued social and health care, we would pay nurses, social care officers, doctors and so on a lot more, but we wont; but anyhoos, the likes of Martin Sheen and co were basically advocating dictatorship because Trump won the electoral college vote, and Sheen didn't agree with the results - which wins elections in USA - although I do find it hilarious when Brits slag it off and we basically we have the same system via FPTP.

Blethering here, and none of it is of importance, but ideally democracy works within reason. At the same time, we westerns can't go in to Libya, Iraq and overthrow governments expecting what we know. Then again, there is a lot of blood on British and French hands in that part of the world - drawing up borders in countries that are not 'islamic', 'jewish', or even 'Syrian'. I've only read a few books but even us dumbos know that you can't just draw lines in diverse nations that never were nations until a 100 years ago where the Islamic, Druze, Christian faith ever had a majority or pulled a people together. The clan system is a complex system, and even the British government should have learned from us, ourselves (Jockos) that it goes back a way further than religion.

[m4 colin]

That British Government didnt give a fuck if its own people could afford clothing and shoes or had enough to eat or access to medical treatment , so how are they going to care about a bunch of Arabs The only reason any kind of national welfare was started is because half the working classes wernt even fit enough to be sent for slaughter on the battlefields of WWI, and it was then thought there would always be a need for cannon fodder

[kancutlawns]

Yup and the country's become one one big franchise for everything from banks to pharmaceuticals to car manufacturing to football club. Auctioning to the highest bidder with money sloshing about and people who own them having no idea about heritage or roots. Everything around processes, accountability, business practice, etc is there simply to protect those at the top and their investment making opportunity.

Meanwhile the rest of us at the lower end of the food chain when we work long hours, sons who are on shifts do so with a risk to the following later in life:'

1. Their mental and physical wellbeing
2. Relationships with partners and children

[Hillman avenger]

I'm not going to drill too far into this issue because I am on my 8th can of 'Frosty Jacks' cider. But I think it's important. Apols for spelling errors.

This is the nub: China has being doing fairly well for the past 45 years surpressing freedom of speech. If they need a hospital, they'll build and maintain one within 3 months. If some roads need to be built, the regime will construct it.

At what cost you ask? Freedom of speech and marching around. I am at a tipping point. As I suspect most are. And Liberalism is at tipping point too.

The question is, given the state of our services (in England): transport, health etc. Would you forgoe your right to protest and freedom of speech in return for guaranteed healthcare and a decent transport network?

It's a tough one because I was always up for the freedom to wave a flag around etc. But Libralism is in the brink becuase it's fucked itself up.

I don't understand why they would be alternatives..why would you have to give up freedom of speech to get improvement in the NHS?

[carcinogen]

,

..why would you have to give up freedom of speech to get improvement in the NHS?

n.

This is the nub of the issue mate. Sit down and figure out the answer and then join us! And that doesn't mean joining Corbyn and his deluded saddo acolytes.

Personally, I believe the genie has left the bottle...blah blah, I won't go on.