talkFORUM Archive

Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

I must say that I've long been baffled by the seeming approval by the unions of an unlimited supply of cheap labour, which seems to go against their supposed principles.

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Actually its the unelected cunts in Brussels.

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

It does.

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Eh? They've increased net immigration after promising to massively reduce it Roy. Your analogy is silly.

Steve Hunt wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Think we need a thread asking when some on the right are going to wake up to the fact the Tories have no intention of reducing immigration.

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Think we need a thread asking when some on the right are going to wake up to the fact the Tories have no intention of reducing immigration.

.........or enforcing Brexit.

Labour, Tory & LibDem - you can't put a fag paper between them.

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:
It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Think we need a thread asking when some on the right are going to wake up to the fact the Tories have no intention of reducing immigration.

.........or enforcing Brexit.

Labour, Tory & LibDem - you can't put a fag paper between them.

TBH it's difficult to work out what they genuinely think. We have a strange situation (IMO) where the leader of the Labour Party is pretending to be less enthusiastic about Brexit than he is & Theresa May is doing the opposite. I've no idea how this will resolve itself. I'm getting bored of it TBH. Maybe that will change when we trigger Article 50.

Steve Hunt wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Ralph has a point from his party political perspective yes, in that the mass immigration numbers are continuing to rise rather than reduce.
And I'm far from excusing the tories, - they are, as we both keep saying, two cheeks of the same backside, but for ralph to make party political points out of what is a dismal if not scandalous period of our very recent history is quite shabby.
Who is worse, - the party that introduced mass immigration without our consent, or those that did nothing to halt the flood, despite promising otherwise, - I'd say my analogy stands.

Roy Twing wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:

Ralph wrote:

Steve Hunt wrote:Is the Left waking up?

Unite general secretary, Len McCluskey defies Jeremy Corbyn by calling for an end to free movement of labour.
Launching his bid to be re-elected as general secretary of the UK’s largest union, McCluskey said “workers have always done best when the labour supply is controlled and communities are stable”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

It's not 'the left' presiding over record breaking levels of net immigration, it's the current Conservative government.

Agreed. They are as hopeless as your lot, Ralph.

It's significantly higher now than when Labour left office & they got elected promising to massively reduce it. That makes them worse, surely?

Yes, and we’ve all become older under the tories, - we were younger when labour were in power.
So the tories must be worse.

Ralph has a point, Roy.

For two consecutive election campaigns Dave promised to reduce immigration, drastically.

He & his party have been an abject failure in delivering this pledge

Ralph has a point from his party political perspective yes, in that the mass immigration numbers are continuing to rise rather than reduce.
And I'm far from excusing the tories, - they are, as we both keep saying, two cheeks of the same backside, but for ralph to make party political points out of what is a dismal if not scandalous period of our very recent history is quite shabby.
Who is worse, - the party that introduced mass immigration without our consent, or those that did nothing to halt the flood, despite promising otherwise, - I'd say my analogy stands.

The Tories have increased 'the flood', significantly, after promising to drastically reduce it in two General Elections.

From my point of view there's a massive difference in being dictated to by Brussels on the free movement of people, allowing students and other skilled workers to come here from outside the EU from places like China, employers choosing foreign labour partly on the ground it is more efficient but partly on the alternative ground that it is cheaper and the NEW LABOUR IDEAL OF RUBBING OUR NOSES IN DIVERSITY TO RENDER THE RIGHT'S ARGUMENT REDUNDANT.

As for the working class traditional left themselves they have been coerced into voting for things they have never believed in and never will.. It's the recent progressive left which New Labour epitomised which is the root of the problem, so Len McCluskey isn't out of step with his members at all. In fact I welcome his sensible input for once as he's arguing about jobs his members should have rather than be priced out of.

The progressive left is also mirrored by the same attitude in Brussels who are safe in their index linked pension proof sub normal income tax rated sinecure jobs while inflicting their misery on the working classes they claim to respect.

Brexit, and the referendum allowed a breakaway from the usual partisan politics so a common sense policy on common ground agreed by both left and right could be pursued at last on issues we agree on without someone being voted into office with any particular coloured rosette.

But it all goes deeper than that. Why is our own workforce so desperately inadequate compared to eager and willing foreigners when we spent/ wasted hundreds of billions on education, education ,education to make them compete on the world market?

No ones tacking these real issues in any way other than spin.

m4rkb wrote:From my point of view there's a massive difference in being dictated to by Brussels on the free movement of people, allowing students and other skilled workers to come here from outside the EU from places like China, employers choosing foreign labour partly on the ground it is more efficient but partly on the alternative ground that it is cheaper and the NEW LABOUR IDEAL OF RUBBING OUR NOSES IN DIVERSITY TO RENDER THE RIGHT'S ARGUMENT REDUNDANT.

As for the working class traditional left themselves they have been coerced into voting for things they have never believed in and never will.. It's the recent progressive left which New Labour epitomised which is the root of the problem, so Len McCluskey isn't out of step with his members at all. In fact I welcome his sensible input for once as he's arguing about jobs his members should have rather than be priced out of.

The progressive left is also mirrored by the same attitude in Brussels who are safe in their index linked pension proof sub normal income tax rated sinecure jobs while inflicting their misery on the working classes they claim to respect.

Brexit, and the referendum allowed a breakaway from the usual partisan politics so a common sense policy on common ground agreed by both left and right could be pursued at last on issues we agree on without someone being voted into office with any particular coloured rosette.

But it all goes deeper than that. Why is our own workforce so desperately inadequate compared to eager and willing foreigners when we spent/ wasted hundreds of billions on education, education ,education to make them compete on the world market?

No ones tacking these real issues in any way other than spin.

Are you some sort of cunt, comin over ere, calling it as it is????

Wouldn't it be nice to have a centre ground party made up of blue left and red right rather than what we have at the moment. They say there isn't a difference but I'm afraid there is. Trouble is this hypothetical party is rejected by the progressives at it does away with the meat cleaver down the middle dividing and ruling which the current system clearly does. the last thing they want is an outbreak of common sense and a movement people get behind en masse.

m4rkb wrote:From my point of view there's a massive difference in being dictated to by Brussels on the free movement of people, allowing students and other skilled workers to come here from outside the EU from places like China, employers choosing foreign labour partly on the ground it is more efficient but partly on the alternative ground that it is cheaper and the NEW LABOUR IDEAL OF RUBBING OUR NOSES IN DIVERSITY TO RENDER THE RIGHT'S ARGUMENT REDUNDANT.

As for the working class traditional left themselves they have been coerced into voting for things they have never believed in and never will.. It's the recent progressive left which New Labour epitomised which is the root of the problem, so Len McCluskey isn't out of step with his members at all. In fact I welcome his sensible input for once as he's arguing about jobs his members should have rather than be priced out of.

The progressive left is also mirrored by the same attitude in Brussels who are safe in their index linked pension proof sub normal income tax rated sinecure jobs while inflicting their misery on the working classes they claim to respect.

Brexit, and the referendum allowed a breakaway from the usual partisan politics so a common sense policy on common ground agreed by both left and right could be pursued at last on issues we agree on without someone being voted into office with any particular coloured rosette.

But it all goes deeper than that. Why is our own workforce so desperately inadequate compared to eager and willing foreigners when we spent/ wasted hundreds of billions on education, education ,education to make them compete on the world market?

No ones tacking these real issues in any way other than spin.

Where are you getting this rosy picture of who is being let in under this government? To stop the figures looking even worse they're reducing the number of foreign students. The government is restricting the immigrants most people (across the political spectrum) would agree should be allowed to come here, to make the figures look better.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... undergrads

You're whinging about the left. The Conservatives have been in power for over 6 years & the net immigration figures have literally never been higher, even after they've been massaged.

To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.

Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.

This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.

Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that mass immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.

Ralph wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:

Ralph wrote:To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.

Missed the vital word when re-reading and you beat me to it.
A successful obfuscation on your part.

m4rkb wrote:I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.

Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.

This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.

It is a peculiar stance to take IMO but if it shared by others, possibly explains why the Tories made no effort to keep their promises on reducing net immigration to the tens of thousands.