Free Movement of People

[Ralph]

To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.

Missed the vital word when re-reading and you beat me to it.
A successful obfuscation on your part.

You asked me a question I answered it. Do you want to ask another?

[m4rkb]

I was told today by someone reasonably in the know (ie in a job that would know) that many of these migrants pretendig to be tax paying contributors spend a large part of the day making claims one after the other on the grounds a certain percentage are accepted. The massive trump card is having a baby born here which opens the door for the parents regardless of where they come from as the child is now British.

I don't expect I've taught anyone anything they didn't wither know or suspect in the first place and the informant was Asian and fed up with it just as much as us 'racist' Brits.

[m4rkb]

I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.

Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.

This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.

It is a peculiar stance to take IMO but if it shared by others, possibly explains why the Tories made no effort to keep their promises on reducing net immigration to the tens of thousands.

One other reason is the politicians in charge are not the ones the public really want despite apparently living in a democracy. Most candidates are chosen for us by central office in seats where the proverbial money with a certain coloured rosette would always win.

[Ralph]

To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that mass immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Immigration that's unsustainable or isn't benefiting the country is a bad thing.

[m4rkb]

What's brought about this sudden change of opinion?

[Ralph]

What's brought about this sudden change of opinion?

I haven't changed my opinion.

[m4rkb]

I'll admit you're one of the more rational ones on here from the left regarding this issue but your lack of any obvious criticism does lend itself to thinking you're in favour.

Others on the other hand are firmly in the 'shadenfreude' camp of enjoying watching it at every unsustainable level just as long as it annoys us which they know it does.

[Roy Twing]

To stop the figures looking/getting worse the government is clamping down on the type of immigrant the Foreign Secretary thinks shouldn't even be counted. What an absolute farce.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54771.html

The government's immigration policy designed purely to make the figures look better & not even succeeding in doing that.

At least we all seem to agree that immigration is actually a bad thing, yes?

Not all immigration is a bad thing Roy, no.

Missed the vital word when re-reading and you beat me to it.
A successful obfuscation on your part.

You asked me a question I answered it. Do you want to ask another?

It was meant to be rhetorical, because you've made it clear that you agree that the (mass immigration) figures are a bad thing.

[carcinogen]

We live in a bankrupt country. London aside. Britain is a relic. All this is just re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Who gives a fuck.

[Hillman avenger]

I'm not saying the conservatives record on immigration is to my liking Ralph. What I'm pointing out is the difference in attitude. Although the figures are sky high and totally unacceptable under this government, they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it.

Your lot did exactly that. I also think the same people responsible for that attitude silently like to see them claiming as much welfare as possible for the same reasons. It's the repulsive side of the hard left.

This is why I'm happier with higher immigration under the tories than lower immigration under labour even though on the face of it it's a paradox.

I don't know wher you get these ideas from. It's one of the ones, like your droning on about diversity, which preoccupies you.

Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.

What it did do, was recognise as a fact of life that we have global economy and that freedom of labour to move to its optimum employer is a facet of that. Yes, they underestimated the degree to which eastern Europeans would take that opportunity.

They also recognised that if we wanted to stay in the EU we needed to accept it, and that in the majority of cases people moving here from within the EU would be making a contribution to our economy.

I don't think for a minute that what happened was in any way driven by spite. I do think they believed that some people would react negatively to it, but that didn't stop them.

[Roy Twing]

Horatio strikes again.
I'll let m4rk elaborate seeing as that gem of a reply was directed at him.

[goofyrat]

phpBB [video]

[Zambo]

Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.

[Roy Twing]

Blair's government did not set out to upset people by importing lots of immigrants and watching them put strain on the benefits system. Not least because there was no reason to do so.

As it was aimed at him, I expected m4rk to have suitably ridiculed horatio for that by now.

[Hillman avenger]

Roy, m4krb and the rest, why on earth do you think Blair and co would have permitted immigration ( which in any event was an EU obligation) to UPSET people like you?

That belies a self-importance which is deeply unjustified.

Wind back the clock. At the time we passed on the interim period for eastern European immigration our economy was on the up, and we had skills shortages. Do you remember the building of Wembley?

We had an EU obligation to allow the immigration. All we did was to waive the interim limit opportunity. For the reasons I have given. When that expired we had no option of control anyway, just like the other 20-odd EU members.

Yes the forecast of how many would come was wrong.

But they didn't set out a government policy just to piss you off. I doubt though, that the fact that it did was not a cause of regret.

BTW it remains the case that we are free to limit or even cease non-EU immigration, which remains the majority of our immigration.

[Zambo]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

[Roy Twing]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.

[Ralph]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?

[Ralph]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.

So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?

[Zambo]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?

I know it's your hobby horse Ralph, and you take every opportunity to post it on here, despite everyone knowing it, but it's irrelevant to this particular argument.

[Ralph]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

Net immigration is higher now nearly 7 years after Labour left office. If they had a deliberate open door policy why has it risen under the Tories? Have the Tories got an even wider open door immigration policy?

I know it's your hobby horse Ralph, and you take every opportunity to post it on here, despite everyone knowing it, but it's irrelevant to this particular argument.

It is relevant because it's being stated as fact Labour had an open door immigration policy. The elephant in the room is that net immigration is significantly higher NOW than when Labour left office.

[Roy Twing]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.

So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?

It was in direct response to horatio's rather daft comment that - "they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it" - I was merely highlighting that at least one prominent labour contributor did just that - the PLP was never likely to, of course, so this is the next best thing.

There is little doubt that blair's new labour 'opened the door' (a cursory glance at a timeline graph of net migration over the last 20+ years will illustrate that clearly enough for anyone), and Neather offered a reason why, which, of course, was promptly stamped upon.

[Ralph]

I thought I saw an admission by Labour that thy had an open door policy. I must have got tha mixed up with one of their other lies.

A certain Andrew Neather summed it up, but it's pointless my responding in detail to horatio, - he just ignores me when it suits.

So this conspiracy theory is based entirely on a newspaper column?

It was in direct response to horatio's rather daft comment that - "they have never proudly stated their main motivation was one of spite towards those who did not want it" - I was merely highlighting that at least one prominent labour contributor did just that - the PLP was never likely to, of course, so this is the next best thing.

There is little doubt that blair's new labour 'opened the door' (a cursory glance at a timeline graph of net migration over the last 20+ years will illustrate that clearly enough for anyone), and Neather offered a reason why, which, of course, was promptly stamped upon.

It was the Tories who signed us up to freedom of movement. What happened to immigration after was largely as a result of that. The Tories also fully supported the Eastern European countries joining the EU.

Andrew Neather's column wasn't stamped on. It used to get posted on here every couple of months.

There's no way you can sensibly argue Labour had a deliberate open door policy but the current Conservative government doesn't.

[Ralph]

Conservative immigration policy - Talk tough then do the opposite.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/12/ ... migration/

[paolo]

Let left and right unite together to condemn the free movement of people and the massive problems it has caused