RIP Fidel - good guy or bad guy

[The Tick]

The biggest sponsor of terrorism was and is the USA.

And Castro had little choice but to fight fire with fire.

[The Tick]

I'm not disputing any terrorist activity by a state or anyone else, but the position that Castro only used force for defence with the evidence out there is ridiculous. He used violence and intimidation in the pursuit of his political aims, that cannot be disputed surely. He was a bloodthirsty murderous criminal. He used firing squad executions to enforce discipline, punish followers deemed disloyal or intimidate potential opposition.

Sorry, but I can't get my head round why someone like that is deemed a hero, irrespective of what he might have done to help his country and his people. Tyranic dictators like him, Hussein, Assad, Gadaffi, Mugabe, Kim-Jong should have/have had nowhere to hide on this planet.

ironically you'd be one of those singing the praises of Agusto Pinochet.

[Zambo]

I'm not disputing any terrorist activity by a state or anyone else, but the position that Castro only used force for defence with the evidence out there is ridiculous. He used violence and intimidation in the pursuit of his political aims, that cannot be disputed surely. He was a bloodthirsty murderous criminal. He used firing squad executions to enforce discipline, punish followers deemed disloyal or intimidate potential opposition.

Sorry, but I can't get my head round why someone like that is deemed a hero, irrespective of what he might have done to help his country and his people. Tyranic dictators like him, Hussein, Assad, Gadaffi, Mugabe, Kim-Jong should have/have had nowhere to hide on this planet.

ironically you'd be one of those singing the praises of Agusto Pinochet.

Nope I've never followed Tottenham

[The Tick]

I'm not disputing any terrorist activity by a state or anyone else, but the position that Castro only used force for defence with the evidence out there is ridiculous. He used violence and intimidation in the pursuit of his political aims, that cannot be disputed surely. He was a bloodthirsty murderous criminal. He used firing squad executions to enforce discipline, punish followers deemed disloyal or intimidate potential opposition.

Sorry, but I can't get my head round why someone like that is deemed a hero, irrespective of what he might have done to help his country and his people. Tyranic dictators like him, Hussein, Assad, Gadaffi, Mugabe, Kim-Jong should have/have had nowhere to hide on this planet.

ironically you'd be one of those singing the praises of Agusto Pinochet.

Nope I've never followed Tottenham

no the Chilean ex dictator Pinochet. You loved him didn't you?

[Zambo]

I'm not disputing any terrorist activity by a state or anyone else, but the position that Castro only used force for defence with the evidence out there is ridiculous. He used violence and intimidation in the pursuit of his political aims, that cannot be disputed surely. He was a bloodthirsty murderous criminal. He used firing squad executions to enforce discipline, punish followers deemed disloyal or intimidate potential opposition.

Sorry, but I can't get my head round why someone like that is deemed a hero, irrespective of what he might have done to help his country and his people. Tyranic dictators like him, Hussein, Assad, Gadaffi, Mugabe, Kim-Jong should have/have had nowhere to hide on this planet.

ironically you'd be one of those singing the praises of Agusto Pinochet.

Nope I've never followed Tottenham

no the Chilean ex dictator Pinochet. You loved him didn't you?

Silly comment deserved a silly answer.

[The Tick]

In other words you did like Pinochet. Well that invalidates all you say about Castro.

[Royal24s]

He didn't say he liked Pinochet, and you're not entitled to invalidate what anyone says anyway.
We know you support all evil bastards, so your position can be taken as read.

[The Tick]

He didn't say he liked Pinochet,and you're not entitled to invalidate what anyone says anyway.
We know you support all evil bastards, so your position can be taken as read.

I'll do as I please. You can clear off.

[Royal24s]

Yeah, we'll you do as you please and see where it gets you in life.
You still can't " invalidate" what people say though. You can comment upon it and disagree but no one will take much notice because you obviously have no bloody idea what you're talking about and have, as I said, a default position of supporting evil bastards.

[Zambo]

The Tick is one of the biggest self loathers I have come across, and he obviously carries an enormous chip on his shoulder. Bit sad really.

[Roger 1984]

The Tick is one of the biggest self loathers I have come across, and he obviously carries an enormous chip on his shoulder. Bit sad really.

I have found Tick to be intelligent and wise.

[Roger 1984]

If we must go there when the man has just died, the truth is that Castro was a monster.
He killed and tortured many people including competitors and peasants who crossed him, as well as executing homosexuals .
I think Roger must have been taking George Galloway too seriously on this, or possibly been on one of these closely monitored tourist trips.
Conditions there are dreadful and people are terrified of the Castro family and it's goons. There are two hospitals for showing visiting politicians, and the rest of the poor bastards can't get an aspirin. It might interest you to learn that despite theatrics to the contrary , it's far more racist against black people than South Africa ever was.
The people still trapped in Cuba are just as anti Castro as those who've escaped his tyrrany, but they would not dare say so because they live in a constant state of fear as well as dreadful poverty.

George Galloway is not the issue here and Castro fought monsters. His only crime was standing up and fighting off the terrorists. Royals has been taking the propaganda too seriously on this. It certainly shows!

Castro's legacy and the envy of many nations: social care in Cuba (published on Sunday November 27 2016)

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... re-in-cuba

The reality of Cuba’s present-day healthcare system, however, stands in sharp contrast to some portrayals, even before 2000. In fact, despite economic sanctions designed to punish the communist country, healthcare remained and remains a top priority and a national goal. Cuba has approximately sixty thousand doctors for a population of eleven million, or roughly one doctor per two hundred people. [1] This is the best ratio in the world. Free healthcare and low-cost prescription medications constitute a fundamental, inalienable, human right for everyone according to Cuba’s Public Health Act of 1983.[2] The same medicine that costs over one hundred dollars in New York City, costs only five cents in Cuba.[3] Even more importantly, they have a lower infant mortality rate (5.1 per thousand in Cuba, 6.3 per thousand in the United States), and they have a longer average lifespan (78.3 in Cuba, 78.2 in the United States) than either the United States or other Latin American countries.[4] The government even provides compensation for citizens: the disabled, the retired, the unemployed, and mothers in maternity care. Furthermore, Cuba even has free daycare where children also receive basic healthcare and education. Obviously, the Cuban world has a distinctive model that could serve as an example to the world.

[1] Milan Korcok, “Cuba trains American medical students–to work in US,” CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal 164, no. 10 (2001): 1477.

[2] Stephanie Hauge, “Primary Care in Cuba,” Einstein Journal of Biology & Medicine 23, no. 1 (2007): 37-42; and Milton I Roemer, “Primary Healthcare and Hospitalization: California and Cuba,” American Journal of Public Health 83, no. 3 (1993): 317-18.

[3] Michael Moore, Sicko (New York: Weinstein Company, 2007), theater.

[4] United Nations, “World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision Highlights”; available from http://www.un.org/esa/population/public ... ts_rev.pdf; Internet; accessed 24 September 2007.

[Zambo]

The Tick is one of the biggest self loathers I have come across, and he obviously carries an enormous chip on his shoulder. Bit sad really.

I have found Tick to be intelligent and wise.

[Zambo]

If we must go there when the man has just died, the truth is that Castro was a monster.
He killed and tortured many people including competitors and peasants who crossed him, as well as executing homosexuals .
I think Roger must have been taking George Galloway too seriously on this, or possibly been on one of these closely monitored tourist trips.
Conditions there are dreadful and people are terrified of the Castro family and it's goons. There are two hospitals for showing visiting politicians, and the rest of the poor bastards can't get an aspirin. It might interest you to learn that despite theatrics to the contrary , it's far more racist against black people than South Africa ever was.
The people still trapped in Cuba are just as anti Castro as those who've escaped his tyrrany, but they would not dare say so because they live in a constant state of fear as well as dreadful poverty.

George Galloway is not the issue here and Castro fought monsters. His only crime was standing up and fighting off the terrorists. Royals has been taking the propaganda too seriously on this. It certainly shows!

Castro's legacy and the envy of many nations: social care in Cuba (published on Sunday November 27 2016)

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... re-in-cuba

The reality of Cuba’s present-day healthcare system, however, stands in sharp contrast to some portrayals, even before 2000. In fact, despite economic sanctions designed to punish the communist country, healthcare remained and remains a top priority and a national goal. Cuba has approximately sixty thousand doctors for a population of eleven million, or roughly one doctor per two hundred people. [1] This is the best ratio in the world. Free healthcare and low-cost prescription medications constitute a fundamental, inalienable, human right for everyone according to Cuba’s Public Health Act of 1983.[2] The same medicine that costs over one hundred dollars in New York City, costs only five cents in Cuba.[3] Even more importantly, they have a lower infant mortality rate (5.1 per thousand in Cuba, 6.3 per thousand in the United States), and they have a longer average lifespan (78.3 in Cuba, 78.2 in the United States) than either the United States or other Latin American countries.[4] The government even provides compensation for citizens: the disabled, the retired, the unemployed, and mothers in maternity care. Furthermore, Cuba even has free daycare where children also receive basic healthcare and education. Obviously, the Cuban world has a distinctive model that could serve as an example to the world.

[1] Milan Korcok, “Cuba trains American medical students–to work in US,” CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal 164, no. 10 (2001): 1477.

[2] Stephanie Hauge, “Primary Care in Cuba,” Einstein Journal of Biology & Medicine 23, no. 1 (2007): 37-42; and Milton I Roemer, “Primary Healthcare and Hospitalization: California and Cuba,” American Journal of Public Health 83, no. 3 (1993): 317-18.

[3] Michael Moore, Sicko (New York: Weinstein Company, 2007), theater.

[4] United Nations, “World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision Highlights”; available from http://www.un.org/esa/population/public ... ts_rev.pdf; Internet; accessed 24 September 2007.

And the halocaust didn't happen and Pele is scum

Give it up.

Anything good Castro did was wiped out one million times by his criminal activity and the disgusting treatment of his own people.

[Roger 1984]

If we must go there when the man has just died, the truth is that Castro was a monster.
He killed and tortured many people including competitors and peasants who crossed him, as well as executing homosexuals .
I think Roger must have been taking George Galloway too seriously on this, or possibly been on one of these closely monitored tourist trips.
Conditions there are dreadful and people are terrified of the Castro family and it's goons. There are two hospitals for showing visiting politicians, and the rest of the poor bastards can't get an aspirin. It might interest you to learn that despite theatrics to the contrary , it's far more racist against black people than South Africa ever was.
The people still trapped in Cuba are just as anti Castro as those who've escaped his tyrrany, but they would not dare say so because they live in a constant state of fear as well as dreadful poverty.

George Galloway is not the issue here and Castro fought monsters. His only crime was standing up and fighting off the terrorists. Royals has been taking the propaganda too seriously on this. It certainly shows!

Castro's legacy and the envy of many nations: social care in Cuba (published on Sunday November 27 2016)

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... re-in-cuba

The reality of Cuba’s present-day healthcare system, however, stands in sharp contrast to some portrayals, even before 2000. In fact, despite economic sanctions designed to punish the communist country, healthcare remained and remains a top priority and a national goal. Cuba has approximately sixty thousand doctors for a population of eleven million, or roughly one doctor per two hundred people. [1] This is the best ratio in the world. Free healthcare and low-cost prescription medications constitute a fundamental, inalienable, human right for everyone according to Cuba’s Public Health Act of 1983.[2] The same medicine that costs over one hundred dollars in New York City, costs only five cents in Cuba.[3] Even more importantly, they have a lower infant mortality rate (5.1 per thousand in Cuba, 6.3 per thousand in the United States), and they have a longer average lifespan (78.3 in Cuba, 78.2 in the United States) than either the United States or other Latin American countries.[4] The government even provides compensation for citizens: the disabled, the retired, the unemployed, and mothers in maternity care. Furthermore, Cuba even has free daycare where children also receive basic healthcare and education. Obviously, the Cuban world has a distinctive model that could serve as an example to the world.

[1] Milan Korcok, “Cuba trains American medical students–to work in US,” CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal 164, no. 10 (2001): 1477.

[2] Stephanie Hauge, “Primary Care in Cuba,” Einstein Journal of Biology & Medicine 23, no. 1 (2007): 37-42; and Milton I Roemer, “Primary Healthcare and Hospitalization: California and Cuba,” American Journal of Public Health 83, no. 3 (1993): 317-18.

[3] Michael Moore, Sicko (New York: Weinstein Company, 2007), theater.

[4] United Nations, “World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision Highlights”; available from http://www.un.org/esa/population/public ... ts_rev.pdf; Internet; accessed 24 September 2007.

And the halocaust didn't happen and Pele is scum

Give it up.

Anything good Castro did was wiped out one million times by his criminal activity and the disgusting treatment of his own people.

Criminal because of his "disgusting treatment" of terrorists and sabotageurs?

[Royal24s]

The Tick is one of the biggest self loathers I have come across, and he obviously carries an enormous chip on his shoulder. Bit sad really.

I have found Tick to be intelligent and wise.

Good for you,,but then you think Castro was nice .

[Royal24s]

If we must go there when the man has just died, the truth is that Castro was a monster.
He killed and tortured many people including competitors and peasants who crossed him, as well as executing homosexuals .
I think Roger must have been taking George Galloway too seriously on this, or possibly been on one of these closely monitored tourist trips.
Conditions there are dreadful and people are terrified of the Castro family and it's goons. There are two hospitals for showing visiting politicians, and the rest of the poor bastards can't get an aspirin. It might interest you to learn that despite theatrics to the contrary , it's far more racist against black people than South Africa ever was.
The people still trapped in Cuba are just as anti Castro as those who've escaped his tyrrany, but they would not dare say so because they live in a constant state of fear as well as dreadful poverty.

George Galloway is not the issue here and Castro fought monsters. His only crime was standing up and fighting off the terrorists. Royals has been taking the propaganda too seriously on this. It certainly shows!

Castro's legacy and the envy of many nations: social care in Cuba (published on Sunday November 27 2016)

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... re-in-cuba

The reality of Cuba’s present-day healthcare system, however, stands in sharp contrast to some portrayals, even before 2000. In fact, despite economic sanctions designed to punish the communist country, healthcare remained and remains a top priority and a national goal. Cuba has approximately sixty thousand doctors for a population of eleven million, or roughly one doctor per two hundred people. [1] This is the best ratio in the world. Free healthcare and low-cost prescription medications constitute a fundamental, inalienable, human right for everyone according to Cuba’s Public Health Act of 1983.[2] The same medicine that costs over one hundred dollars in New York City, costs only five cents in Cuba.[3] Even more importantly, they have a lower infant mortality rate (5.1 per thousand in Cuba, 6.3 per thousand in the United States), and they have a longer average lifespan (78.3 in Cuba, 78.2 in the United States) than either the United States or other Latin American countries.[4] The government even provides compensation for citizens: the disabled, the retired, the unemployed, and mothers in maternity care. Furthermore, Cuba even has free daycare where children also receive basic healthcare and education. Obviously, the Cuban world has a distinctive model that could serve as an example to the world.

[1] Milan Korcok, “Cuba trains American medical students–to work in US,” CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal 164, no. 10 (2001): 1477.

[2] Stephanie Hauge, “Primary Care in Cuba,” Einstein Journal of Biology & Medicine 23, no. 1 (2007): 37-42; and Milton I Roemer, “Primary Healthcare and Hospitalization: California and Cuba,” American Journal of Public Health 83, no. 3 (1993): 317-18.

[3] Michael Moore, Sicko (New York: Weinstein Company, 2007), theater.

[4] United Nations, “World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision Highlights”; available from http://www.un.org/esa/population/public ... ts_rev.pdf; Internet; accessed 24 September 2007.

Are you that cab driver who used to call talksport ? Or are you the only other person he convinced.

[kancutlawns]

God, it's like four bald blokes fighting over a comb in here. More quality debating lads. Well done.

[Royal24s]

By the way, those who fight monsters must take care not to become monsters themselves .
Maybe he didn't read that.

[Roger 1984]

If we must go there when the man has just died, the truth is that Castro was a monster.
He killed and tortured many people including competitors and peasants who crossed him, as well as executing homosexuals .
I think Roger must have been taking George Galloway too seriously on this, or possibly been on one of these closely monitored tourist trips.
Conditions there are dreadful and people are terrified of the Castro family and it's goons. There are two hospitals for showing visiting politicians, and the rest of the poor bastards can't get an aspirin. It might interest you to learn that despite theatrics to the contrary , it's far more racist against black people than South Africa ever was.
The people still trapped in Cuba are just as anti Castro as those who've escaped his tyrrany, but they would not dare say so because they live in a constant state of fear as well as dreadful poverty.

George Galloway is not the issue here and Castro fought monsters. His only crime was standing up and fighting off the terrorists. Royals has been taking the propaganda too seriously on this. It certainly shows!

Castro's legacy and the envy of many nations: social care in Cuba (published on Sunday November 27 2016)

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... re-in-cuba

The reality of Cuba’s present-day healthcare system, however, stands in sharp contrast to some portrayals, even before 2000. In fact, despite economic sanctions designed to punish the communist country, healthcare remained and remains a top priority and a national goal. Cuba has approximately sixty thousand doctors for a population of eleven million, or roughly one doctor per two hundred people. [1] This is the best ratio in the world. Free healthcare and low-cost prescription medications constitute a fundamental, inalienable, human right for everyone according to Cuba’s Public Health Act of 1983.[2] The same medicine that costs over one hundred dollars in New York City, costs only five cents in Cuba.[3] Even more importantly, they have a lower infant mortality rate (5.1 per thousand in Cuba, 6.3 per thousand in the United States), and they have a longer average lifespan (78.3 in Cuba, 78.2 in the United States) than either the United States or other Latin American countries.[4] The government even provides compensation for citizens: the disabled, the retired, the unemployed, and mothers in maternity care. Furthermore, Cuba even has free daycare where children also receive basic healthcare and education. Obviously, the Cuban world has a distinctive model that could serve as an example to the world.

[1] Milan Korcok, “Cuba trains American medical students–to work in US,” CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal 164, no. 10 (2001): 1477.

[2] Stephanie Hauge, “Primary Care in Cuba,” Einstein Journal of Biology & Medicine 23, no. 1 (2007): 37-42; and Milton I Roemer, “Primary Healthcare and Hospitalization: California and Cuba,” American Journal of Public Health 83, no. 3 (1993): 317-18.

[3] Michael Moore, Sicko (New York: Weinstein Company, 2007), theater.

[4] United Nations, “World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision Highlights”; available from http://www.un.org/esa/population/public ... ts_rev.pdf; Internet; accessed 24 September 2007.

Are you that cab driver who used to call talksport ? Or are you the only other person he convinced.

If you want to debate then so sensibly instead of taking pot-shots and fucking about when your lies/propaganda is exposed for what is.

[Royal24s]

Odd comment from someone who has just spouted all that bloody nonsense about Castro's philanthropy, but what would you like to specifically debate ?
I asked whether you were the cab driver " Cuban Tony" I think they used to call him because other than you I've never heard anyone so committed to defending Castro and doing so by innocently echoing propaganda which even Cuban officials privately laugh at.
The regime has got a couple of show hospitals and nice hotels for visitors, but did you know that unless they're authorised to do so, ordinary Cubans get into trouble if they even speak to foreigners ?
Look, I'm not a gangster who used to run a casino in Havanah or anything, Roger. I've got no axe to grind here, but I do know the real suffering of the Cuban people and the greed and cruelty of the Castro regime. My only passing interest in the matter is the truth, and I'm afraid I think you're the one who is the victim of propaganda .
Incidentally, I don't warm to or support most of the interests who have opposed Castro over the years, with the exception of those who did so during the cold war, or helped prople escape from Cuba, so I don't know why you think I've got a biased view of the matter.

[Royal24s]

You think Cuba is a socialist paradise, but it's a dreadful hell hole for its oppressed people, and I know this for a fact.

[Roger 1984]

Odd comment from someone who has just spouted all that bloody nonsense about Castro's philanthropy, but what would you like to specifically debate ?
I asked whether you were the cab driver " Cuban Tony" I think they used to call him because other than you I've never heard anyone so committed to defending Castro and doing so by innocently echoing propaganda which even Cuban officials privately laugh at.
The regime has got a couple of show hospitals and nice hotels for visitors, but did you know that unless they're authorised to do so, ordinary Cubans get into trouble if they even speak to foreigners ?
Look, I'm not a gangster who used to run a casino in Havanah or anything, Roger. I've got no axe to grind here, but I do know the real suffering of the Cuban people and the greed and cruelty of the Castro regime. My only passing interest in the matter is the truth, and I'm afraid I think you're the one who is the victim of propaganda .
Incidentally, I don't warm to or support most of the interests who have opposed Castro over the years, with the exception of those who did so during the cold war, or helped prople escape from Cuba, so I don't know why you think I've got a biased view of the matter.

Don't get funny with me by coming out with the cab driver rubbish.

You've just repeated the same rubbish about hospitals again as well as the other propaganda claptrap. I refer to you to my post on the previous page with acaddemic references highlighting the greatness of the Cuban healthcare system

Another scientific article highlighting the wonders of the Cuban health system:

"In virtually every critical area of public health and medicine facing poor countries Cuba has achieved undeniable success; these include most prominently—creating a high quality primary care network and an unequaled public health system, educating a skilled work force, sustaining a local biomedical research infrastructure, controlling infectious diseases, achieving a decline in non-communicable diseases, and meeting the emergency health needs of less developed countries".

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/4/817.full

Cooper, R.S. and Kennelly, J.F. (2006) ‘Health in Cuba’, International Journal of Epidemiology, 35(4), pp. 817–824. doi: 10.1093/ije/dyl175.

[Desolation]

Came back from Guardalavaca, Holguin Province a couple of weeks ago. The people have fuck all but a measly $20-30 per month and a ration book for stuff that doesn't exist. The vast majority have a tiny small holding that they farm to live and I bet they're delighted they have a decent health service to patch them up and send them back to their crap lives. Also, whats the point of a good education if there's nothing to do with it.....mensa level smallholders I guess.

[Roger 1984]

Came back from Guardalavaca, Holguin Province a couple of weeks ago. The people have fuck all but a measly $20-30 per month and a ration book for stuff that doesn't exist. The vast majority have a tiny small holding that they farm to live and I bet they're delighted they have a decent health service to patch them up and send them back to their crap lives. Also, whats the point of a good education if there's nothing to do with it.....mensa level smallholders I guess.

At least they have a decent health service and doctors. We in the UK don't even have that.

The UK is heading the same way if not already there in respect of education. That is if education and the levels of it is still good which i doubt