Green belt

[Roy Twing]

All just sticking plaster - as long as the population continues to grow at somewhere around 300,000 (some would say probably a hell of a lot more in reality) each year, it's a losing battle.

B
Cities like Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow, Sheffield, Bradford are struggling with minimal population growth. Until recently, some of them were even experiencing negative growth and are still trying to recover from that.

You sure about that?
Bradford to name just one increased population by 11% from the last two censuses.

[m4 colin]

It's not a shortage of land. There are plenty of brownfield sites in the South East, but surely people would be whining if new developments only happened in the South East ?
Is this about the housing shortage or just wanting to shit up the countryside in the South in revenge for the mess people have made of their own areas elsewhere ?

Absolutely correct as i drive around the country I see lots of vacant factory and warehouse sites and also they are banging up huge warhouses on green land all wrong. Part of the problem is people who view their house as an investment not as a place to live building cheap affordable houses
will drive house prices down and disgusted of Tun wells aint gonna like that. then they wonder why young Sherridan and Ema cant get on the housing ladder

[ccreds]

We should utilize space better and make cities look more desirable. Places similar to Amsterdam and on the continent.

[m4 colin]

We should utilize space better and make cities look more desirable. Places similar to Amsterdam and on the continent.

The Baboons who rampage through our towns Friday and Saturday nights would ruinate it in short order This has nothing to do with how late the bars stay open
and actually very little to do with how much they drink more what kind of people they are and most of all what they are allowed to get away with.

[ccreds]

We should utilize space better and make cities look more desirable. Places similar to Amsterdam and on the continent.

The Baboons who rampage through our towns Friday and Saturday nights would ruinate it in short order This has nothing to do with how late the bars stay open
and actually very little to do with how much they drink more what kind of people they are and most of all what they are allowed to get away with.

Agreed.

[subsub]

There are huge swathes of greenbelt being built upon in areas close to where I live.
I don't know if everyone is aware, but the government a while ago, subtly changed the guidelines regarding approval for development - previously, councils were instructed to generally tend to reject plans for greenbelt development and now it is the opposite, - they will generally tend to approve.
The main contributor to the problem is of course, mass immigration.

Got all the way to the last sentence thinking at last a decent post.
Then you go and spoil it.

Spot on, Hillman.Such a shame that people live their life in fear of other cultures, rather than embracing them.

[Zambo]

There are huge swathes of greenbelt being built upon in areas close to where I live.
I don't know if everyone is aware, but the government a while ago, subtly changed the guidelines regarding approval for development - previously, councils were instructed to generally tend to reject plans for greenbelt development and now it is the opposite, - they will generally tend to approve.
The main contributor to the problem is of course, mass immigration.

Got all the way to the last sentence thinking at last a decent post.
Then you go and spoil it.

Spot on, Hillman.Such a shame that people live their life in fear of other cultures, rather than embracing them.

Being concerned with the population growth, and identifying the main reason for that, is not fearing other cultures, and moreover nor is it failing to embrace them.

What next, you are racist because you can identify with some of UKIPs manifesto?

You have a very weird and blinkered view of life, I must say.

[ccreds]

Is Greenbelt rural suburbs?

[deisegirl]

There was a very practical and necessary reason for the green belt's creation.

London should build taller if it can't cope, or let the rest of the country share the spoils better.

Housing is THE issue right now in Ireland and my job is indirectly concerned with the wider issue. Again it's mostly a Dublin thing because like London that's where "the spoils" are. Half the country wants a house in Dublin and it just doesn't have the capacity. The city is very low density and the suburbs/commuter belt is a sprawl of housing estates. Even if they did start "building up" in the city Irish people tend to be quite sniffy about apartment living as their "home for life" . Maybe that will have to change as people have to readjust their expectations. Maybe in a generation the idea of long term renting will not be seen as such a waste of money, and will be seen as more secure.

I do feel sorry for people trying to rent in Dublin though. The rents have gone mental. The obsession with house owning has done for both the UK and Ireland I think. I bought in the shticks nearly ten years and while it's a source of regret in some was, in others my rental situation in Dublin would have been precarious to say the least. I gripe to non house owning friendsin Dublin
about my commute and they gripe about not ever being able to buy a house. Everybody is miserable.

[Roy Twing]

There are huge swathes of greenbelt being built upon in areas close to where I live.
I don't know if everyone is aware, but the government a while ago, subtly changed the guidelines regarding approval for development - previously, councils were instructed to generally tend to reject plans for greenbelt development and now it is the opposite, - they will generally tend to approve.
The main contributor to the problem is of course, mass immigration.

Got all the way to the last sentence thinking at last a decent post.
Then you go and spoil it.

Spot on, Hillman.Such a shame that people live their life in fear of other cultures, rather than embracing them.

There you go again - you make a few decent posts, and then revert to the pointless sniping that ruins threads.
There is no question of 'fear' of other cultures in any of my posts, - merely concern over one particular 'cult' (with good reason) - for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.
I made what I consider to be a valid contribution to a thread about the destruction of the green belt, in that the obvious problem of lack of housing (and therefore decision to relax laws on greenbelt development) is largely caused by a rapidly growing population, and the majority of the growth is caused by mass immigration.
If I have posted what you consider to be any factually incorrect statements please feel free to debate, but don't make lazy, daft put-downs which make you look like the troll you repeatedly deny you are.

[Zambo]

There you go again - you make a few decent posts, and then revert to the pointless sniping that ruins threads.

I must have missed them. Maybe he will post another one later and I can catch it then.

[Roy Twing]

There you go again - you make a few decent posts, and then revert to the pointless sniping that ruins threads.

I must have missed them. Maybe he will post another one later and I can catch it then.

Well, when I say 'decent', I mean slightly less childish than usual.

[kancutlawns]

There are huge swathes of greenbelt being built upon in areas close to where I live.
I don't know if everyone is aware, but the government a while ago, subtly changed the guidelines regarding approval for development - previously, councils were instructed to generally tend to reject plans for greenbelt development and now it is the opposite, - they will generally tend to approve.
The main contributor to the problem is of course, mass immigration.

Got all the way to the last sentence thinking at last a decent post.
Then you go and spoil it.

Spot on, Hillman.Such a shame that people live their life in fear of other cultures, rather than embracing them.

There you go again - you make a few decent posts, and then revert to the pointless sniping that ruins threads.
There is no question of 'fear' of other cultures in any of my posts, - merely concern over one particular 'cult' (with good reason) - for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.
I made what I consider to be a valid contribution to a thread about the destruction of the green belt, in that the obvious problem of lack of housing (and therefore decision to relax laws on greenbelt development) is largely caused by a rapidly growing population, and the majority of the growth is caused by mass immigration.
If I have posted what you consider to be any factually incorrect statements please feel free to debate, but don't make lazy, daft put-downs which make you look like the troll you repeatedly deny you are.

"Play the ball, not the man."

[The Tick]

All just sticking plaster - as long as the population continues to grow at somewhere around 300,000 (some would say probably a hell of a lot more in reality) each year, it's a losing battle.

B
Cities like Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow, Sheffield, Bradford are struggling with minimal population growth. Until recently, some of them were even experiencing negative growth and are still trying to recover from that.

You sure about that?
Bradford to name just one increased population by 11% from the last two censuses.

The link I posted earlier here shows that vast swathes of the UK outside the south east have real problems with population growth not being high enough.

[subsub]

There is no question of 'fear' of other cultures in any of my posts

You have seen your avatar, right?

I made what I consider to be a valid contribution to a thread about the destruction of the green belt

...by blaming it all on 'mass immigration' - Farage would be proud of you.

You see, you type this nonsense on a daily basis, then you have the gall to claim the moral high ground and accuse others of being trolls? Seriously...

[Royal24s]

The saying " play the ball not the man" is often a very apposite one here, and makes a good point. It comes originally from football of course, referring to when an inferior player kicks or fouls a superior player who will otherwise beat him every time.
What it doesn't cover is some drunken idiot who's jumped over the barrier and is running round the pitch throwing his own faeces at the players.
He's not playing football at all and is nothing other than an embarrassment to himself and a fucking nuisance to everyone else, so if someone throws a net over him or trips him up that's perfectly OK . No action by the referee because he's not playing in the game, he's just there to gratify his sick personality by spoiling everyone else's time, so you can't foul him.

[Roy Twing]

There is no question of 'fear' of other cultures in any of my posts

You have seen your avatar, right?

I made what I consider to be a valid contribution to a thread about the destruction of the green belt

...by blaming it all on 'mass immigration' - Farage would be proud of you.

You see, you type this nonsense on a daily basis, then you have the gall to claim the moral high ground and accuse others of being trolls? Seriously...

As I've repeatedly asked, - if you wish to debate my statement regarding mass immigration, feel free to do, - I'm more than happy to ask you why you regard it as 'nonsense'.
Over to you, master debater.

[subsub]

if you wish to debate my statement regarding mass immigration, feel free to do

Sure:
https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... ing-crisis

In a speech in December 2012, Theresa May claimed that more than a third of all new housing demand in Britain was caused by immigration. “And there is evidence that without the demand caused by mass immigration, house prices could be 10% lower over a 20-year period,” she said. The statement mirrors a common trope in any debate on the housing crisis: the idea that it is caused by mass migration, and that without migration, Britain would have no need for more housing.

The London School of Economics report that May cited as the source for her claim also says: “In the early years even better off migrants tend to form fewer households as compared to the indigenous population; to live disproportionately in private renting; and to live at higher densities. However, the longer they stay, the more their housing consumption resembles that of similar indigenous households.”

This, in part, debunks the idea that immigration is the biggest strain on housing – new arrivals tend to live in denser households and take up less space.

https://www.housing.org.uk/blog/how-muc ... n-england/

the facts show that migration has not resulted in a disproportionate allocation of social rented homes to newly arriving migrants, an argument that can sometimes be heard in the context of the housing crisis. If we are speaking about the housing crisis the focus should be on the real factors that have led to exploding housing costs and rent levels in many parts of the country – the lack of supply of affordable homes of all types of tenure which we have failed to build for far too long.

[Royal24s]

There is no question of 'fear' of other cultures in any of my posts

You have seen your avatar, right?

I made what I consider to be a valid contribution to a thread about the destruction of the green belt

...by blaming it all on 'mass immigration' - Farage would be proud of you.

You see, you type this nonsense on a daily basis, then you have the gall to claim the moral high ground and accuse others of being trolls? Seriously...

Not everyone is horrified by the idea of being associated with Nigel Farrage you know.
Actually, it made me cringe a bit when I read that, but I think I'm okay now.
Look, you can't just ignore factors which obviously are factors because they clash with your mind control problem.
If a lot of French , Hungarian and Dutch people went to live in Jamaica, that would cause a housing and public services problem there wouldn't it ?
If there aren't enough houses to go round, then plain common sense will tell you that a lot of immigration will increase that shortage because you can't wish houses into existence because you somehow think that applying arithmetic to foreign people is wrong or wicked.

Also very interesting that you associate someone stating opinions you don't like with trolling, in the same insane way that disagreeing with Obama is claimed increasingly to be racist.
If someone is being nasty to a particular group for no good reason then I will be the first to stand up for them, but equal people have equal responsibilities and accountability.
Large additional numbers of people asking for housing cannot be excluded from your calculations just because they are foreign , because if you do that you won't even know how many houses you need.

[subsub]

very interesting that you associate someone stating opinions you don't like with trolling, in the same insane way that disagreeing with Obama is claimed increasingly to be racist

Just to make it absolutely clear to you, this is what Roy wrote:
If I have posted what you consider to be any factually incorrect statements please feel free to debate, but don't make lazy, daft put-downs which make you look like the troll you repeatedly deny you are

Not me who mentioned trolling, O Holy one

[Royal24s]

If we need houses, then let's get rid of the stupid regulations and stop talking in circles, get the materials together and start the diggers and mixers up.

[The Tick]

We wouldn't even need to build so many new places if we utilised existing urban land properly and didn't have such ridiculous land values.

[Royal24s]

very interesting that you associate someone stating opinions you don't like with trolling, in the same insane way that disagreeing with Obama is claimed increasingly to be racist

Just to make it absolutely clear to you, this is what Roy wrote:
If I have posted what you consider to be any factually incorrect statements please feel free to debate, but don't make lazy, daft put-downs which make you look like the troll you repeatedly deny you are

Not me who mentioned trolling, O Holy one

I thought he was referring to the garden assistant I don't address.
Are you sure he meant you?
If so, I apologise unreservedly because you're certainly not a troll, and my earlier post about trolling wasn't in any way directed at you either.

[Zambo]

Not me who mentioned trolling, O Holy one

I don't think you realise you are doing it, as so many of your posts take the same route. i.e down trolling alley.

[Royal24s]

We wouldn't even need to build so many new places if we utilised existing urban land properly and didn't have such ridiculous land values.

Quite right, but we can't alter land values and we still need to get on with it, so don't cancel the diggers while the politicians talk. They'll never produce anything but hot air and reasons not to act.