Political Correctness?

[m4rkb]

It's important because it's being manipulated by politically minded trouble makers when 99.9% of people are ok with the way it is, men and women alike.

[Zambo]

Surely awards should either be for the best actor if everyone is in the pot, or the best male actor and best female actor. All is actor for men and actress for women is a load of bollocks and that has nowt to do with pc, just commonsense.

[Fug1]

It's all very simple; barmaid, nurse and Mum.

Job done.

[Zambo]

Only it's mom where I come from.

[Fug1]

Only it's mom where I come from.

Which part of Brum Zambo? I'm from West Brom but living in Kings Norton.

[Zambo]

Only it's mom where I come from.

Which part of Brum Zambo? I'm from West Brom but living in Kings Norton.

Erdington mate. Right in the middle of Villa country. Don't know how I survived being a Bluenose. Used to be able to see the Albion's fllodlights when on from our front window, although we were around four miles away.

[Petingo]

Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

Do you read things with the express intention of finding sommat to bitch about, Mr. Twing?

Only a fully paid up member of the recreationally offended community would have picked up on a point as pedantic as that........much less take the time to post about it on an Internet forum

I'm just sayin'

[Carlos J]

Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

Sorry, Roy, did you actually read the obituary? https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ogden-dies

The reason I ask is, the headline of the article is:

'Jean Alexander, Coronation Street's Hilda Ogden, dies aged 90'

The subheadline, presumably what you noted is:

'Much-loved actor starred in the TV soap and Last of the Summer Wine'

However, the obituary starts:

'Former Coronation Street actress Jean Alexander, who starred as Hilda Ogden in the soap for over two decades, has died aged 90.'

So, The Guardian, along with the other news sources you looked at, does uses 'actress'. The sub-editor who came up with the subheadline had his/her reasons for it. Was it for space (not likely), aesthetics (not likely), PCness (also not likely as why then allow actress) or AN Other?

To me, just makes The Guard look slovenly and inconsistent, as often their wont, hence called The Grauniad. And not 'another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?'.

[Roy Twing]

Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

Sorry, Roy, did you actually read the obituary? https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ogden-dies

The reason I ask is, the headline of the article is:

'Jean Alexander, Coronation Street's Hilda Ogden, dies aged 90'

The subheadline, presumably what you noted is:

'Much-loved actor starred in the TV soap and Last of the Summer Wine'

However, the obituary starts:

'Former Coronation Street actress Jean Alexander, who starred as Hilda Ogden in the soap for over two decades, has died aged 90.'

So, The Guardian, along with the other news sources you looked at, does uses 'actress'. The sub-editor who came up with the subheadline had his/her reasons for it. Was it for space (not likely), aesthetics (not likely), PCness (also not likely as why then allow actress) or AN Other?

To me, just makes The Guard look slovenly and inconsistent, as often their wont, hence called The Grauniad. And not 'another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?'.

Sorry Carlos, creditable as your forensic efforts are, it is unlikely that the use of 'actor' was simply a mistake, - more likely that the 'sub-editor' feels more strongly on the subject than the writer of the main article.
I did start my OP by suggesting it might be a grauniad typo, but they did it again later:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... r-obituary

[Carlos J]

Agree Roy, it seems a sub-editor thing. Maybe our own dear subsub will pass comment. The Guard, like all organisations will have a style guide, and lo, upon looking, it seems you are quite correct. Scroll down to 'actor': https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-ob ... le-guide-a

However, Guard, 'chanteuse' is a great word as is 'songstress'. So maybe I am also correct. The Guardian being slovenly and inconsistent, and the sub-editor not applying their own style in the article.

[subsub]

Agree Roy, it seems a sub-editor thing. Maybe our own dear subsub will pass comment. The Guard, like all organisations will have a style guide

Well, a lot of what is in a style guide is neither right nor wrong; it's just there to ensure consistency.

I drew up a style guide for the company I work for, which involved deciding the rules we would enforce for various bits of spelling/grammar/punctuation etc:
- single quotes not double quotes
- one to nine written out; 10 and above written as a number
- writing times as 10.30 not 10:30

That sort of thing.

Obviously, The Guardian is going to be hot on things like using 'actor' not 'actress', because they're keen to be seen as non-discriminatory etc

[Carlos J]

Thanks, sub. But as per, The Guard's sub-editors seem not so hot on the consistency point.

[Lou Grant]

The number of subs the newspapers employ is dropping, the workload (digital editions etc.) is increasing. Mistakes and inconsistencies are an inevitable consequence. Blame the industry.

[Petingo]

Agree Roy, it seems a sub-editor thing. Maybe our own dear subsub will pass comment. The Guard, like all organisations will have a style guide

Well, a lot of what is in a style guide is neither right nor wrong; it's just there to ensure consistency.

I drew up a style guide for the company I work for, which involved deciding the rules we would enforce for various bits of spelling/grammar/punctuation etc:
- single quotes not double quotes
- one to nine written out; 10 and above written as a number
- writing times as 10.30 not 10:30

That sort of thing.

Obviously, The Guardian is going to be hot on things like using 'actor' not 'actress', because they're keen to be seen as non-discriminatory etc

Did that company actually have people whom wrote 10:30 when it was half past ten

[Roddy]

Politicians where told by the civil servants that they(not the public) could not use certain words anymore because of the influx of (new people) that they saw in the projected figures coming in.
Then they used the every part of the Media to implement P.C in your face every day for 10 year.
It has seeped into every channel you watch.

Why should people be told how to speak and when and where?
The Politicians and people in the Media are tied up and can't say what they see so why should we?
The Politicians at any level should be listening to the people yet the things they whant to here are P.C that has been foisted upon them and that good comments.
Or the Politicians here the way people really speak form Councillor status upwards and start labeling you.

The Country can run itself without M.P's and has done in the past.
Voting is a charade.

[subsub]

Did that company actually have people whom wrote 10:30 when it was half past ten

All sorts, Pet. Just a big bag of inconsistency.
I had to let them know that it had to be done a certain way every single time.

[Shedboy]

I've noticed actresses being described as female actors over the last year or so. So we are still allowed to know that they are female, but they are equal to male actors. It does seem pretty ridiculous, but those of us in the real world, would still describe Jennifer Lawrence as an actress. If that "offends" anyone that's tough shit.

Indeed.
Although either description tends to be a misnomer in most cases, comediennes are usually described as female comedians these days. It's as if there's a stigma in being called an actress or comedienne.

[Darkyboy]

I've noticed actresses being described as female actors over the last year or so. So we are still allowed to know that they are female, but they are equal to male actors. It does seem pretty ridiculous, but those of us in the real world, would still describe Jennifer Lawrence as an actress. If that "offends" anyone that's tough shit.

Indeed.
Although either description tends to be a misnomer in most cases, comediennes are usually described as female comedians these days. It's as if there's a stigma in being called an actress or comedienne.

You see, that's the thing. To me comedienne always felt a bit of a made up word anyway. It seemed to come about when there were a slew of women doing comedy in the seventies/eighties. Actress is a word with a longer history.

If there is any equality issue in acting, it seems to be with background. The days of working class people becoming A-list actors seems to have gone. Many of the big British actors come from a certain background eg Damian Lewis, Tom Hiddleston, Benedict Cumberbatch, Keira Knightley, Kate Winslet and Emily Blunt. There are very few with a Richard Burton, Michael Caine, Terence Stamp background.

[AlcoholBrazil]

You mean that Danny Dyer is not an A-list actor. You avvin a laugh,me old china.

[Darkyboy]

Generally actors leave Eastenders to pursue a film career. Danny seems to have done it arse about face.

[Royal24s]

How come the French, Germans and others manage to function with gender specific nouns le, la die der das etc and aren't subjected to a bunch of fucking lunatics arguing the toss over them.

Imagine what it'd be like over here if we had them. We've have to rewrite the dictionary on every single word. For a start they'd argue whether woman was a female orientated word and man male orientated.

What's more, we'd actually entertain this bollocks.

French is French. English is English. But both have evolved over time to reflect changes in society. Indeed the French are concerned about the proliferation of English words and phrases into everyday dialogue in French society. But that's how things go. Nothing ever stays the same.

Interesting that you say that. I would imagine that our actor/ actress came from the French acteur/actrice. Therefore, it would make sense to keep the two terms. The French concern over terms like "le weekend" etc has nothing to do with it.

Well, both versions come from Latin, which also had a masculine and feminine version.
Point is that this sort of bollocks limits the scope of the language to express shades of meaning. Of course this wouldn't matter much to anyone who is so stupid as to take it seriously , because they probably only just manage to string a few simple words together anyway.
Words and language express thoughts, so what would it matter to someone like tick if the language is simplified? On the other hand , those who have a more complex thought process will require a more complex means of expressing it.
Of course , the whole word banning thing is really a means of controlling simple minded individuals and limiting , still further, their ability to understand logical arguments against those who wish to ration our word supply.
Since we get our ideas and information from words, they think that if they ban the words, they can gradually smother the ideas and information which they dislike , but cannot overcome with logic or truth.

Demented again
"Those who wish to ration our word supply" FFS Grow up
The only person taking this seriously is Twing.
The use of "actor" a gender-neutral has been around for years, and started in the US at the Academy Awards.
It's only bringing it into line with other gender-neutral words
Plumber
Electrician
Decorator
Bricklayer
Carpenter
Driver
Shop Assistant
Professor
Tutor
Counsellor
Teacher
Doctor
Nurse
Physiotherapist
etc
etc

There you go again with the name calling and insults !
Unfortunately, it's not demented because it's too hard for you to cope with intellectually or educationally .
If you can't grasp or accept the part about restricting words leading to restricting thought and expression, ( which is widely published as a policy in the former Soviet Union and Goebbels), surely you can understand that this particular case lessens the meaning of the word ?
All those random words you list demonstrate bugger all, except that you obviously don't understand Latin any better than you do English or many other things. Of course nouns can be neuter , and often have to be grammatically . Second declension nouns can ONLY be masculine or neuter can't they ?

I am increasingly though reluctantly drawn to the conclusion that it's a mistake to encourage poorly educated people to imagine that their strong opinions of things which they just don't understand are as valid as anyone else's .

[Royal24s]

Veritas Numquam Perit

[Sid Pervcat]

Basically,who fucking cares?

[Hillman avenger]

How come the French, Germans and others manage to function with gender specific nouns le, la die der das etc and aren't subjected to a bunch of fucking lunatics arguing the toss over them.

Imagine what it'd be like over here if we had them. We've have to rewrite the dictionary on every single word. For a start they'd argue whether woman was a female orientated word and man male orientated.

What's more, we'd actually entertain this bollocks.

French is French. English is English. But both have evolved over time to reflect changes in society. Indeed the French are concerned about the proliferation of English words and phrases into everyday dialogue in French society. But that's how things go. Nothing ever stays the same.

Interesting that you say that. I would imagine that our actor/ actress came from the French acteur/actrice. Therefore, it would make sense to keep the two terms. The French concern over terms like "le weekend" etc has nothing to do with it.

Well, both versions come from Latin, which also had a masculine and feminine version.
Point is that this sort of bollocks limits the scope of the language to express shades of meaning. Of course this wouldn't matter much to anyone who is so stupid as to take it seriously , because they probably only just manage to string a few simple words together anyway.
Words and language express thoughts, so what would it matter to someone like tick if the language is simplified? On the other hand , those who have a more complex thought process will require a more complex means of expressing it.
Of course , the whole word banning thing is really a means of controlling simple minded individuals and limiting , still further, their ability to understand logical arguments against those who wish to ration our word supply.
Since we get our ideas and information from words, they think that if they ban the words, they can gradually smother the ideas and information which they dislike , but cannot overcome with logic or truth.

Demented again
"Those who wish to ration our word supply" FFS Grow up
The only person taking this seriously is Twing.
The use of "actor" a gender-neutral has been around for years, and started in the US at the Academy Awards.
It's only bringing it into line with other gender-neutral words
Plumber
Electrician
Decorator
Bricklayer
Carpenter
Driver
Shop Assistant
Professor
Tutor
Counsellor
Teacher
Doctor
Nurse
Physiotherapist
etc
etc

There you go again with the name calling and insults !
Unfortunately, it's not demented because it's too hard for you to cope with intellectually or educationally .
If you can't grasp or accept the part about restricting words leading to restricting thought and expression, ( which is widely published as a policy in the former Soviet Union and Goebbels), surely you can understand that this particular case lessens the meaning of the word ?
All those random words you list demonstrate bugger all, except that you obviously don't understand Latin any better than you do English or many other things. Of course nouns can be neuter , and often have to be grammatically . Second declension nouns can ONLY be masculine or neuter can't they ?

I am increasingly though reluctantly drawn to the conclusion that it's a mistake to encourage poorly educated people to imagine that their strong opinions of things which they just don't understand are as valid as anyone else's .

Point missed as ever.
Fascinated by your second lot of comments about some people being too "poorly educated" to vote. This from someone who bangs on about "freedom"....
Must say though that if your idea had been followed we wouldn't be leaving the EU nor would Trump have got this far.

[Petingo]

Basically,who fucking cares?

This.