Coup in Turkey

[The Tick]

Rumours abound that Russian secret services tipped off Erdogan's people about the coup attempt, giving them some time and planning on how to deal with it.

Really?

That's a surprise. I would have thought Putin would like to have seen Erdogan removed from power

Erdogan made a lot of enemies in the army and pissed off the US/Europe with his antics over the past 2 years. They were out to get him.

Erdogan's surprise move to apologise to Russia and normalise relations with them (and end support for Syria's rebels) looked to have been the last straw for them.

Putin doesn't mind Erdogan as long as he plays ball. And that's what he's now doing. He owes putin big time.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160721/ ... tempt.html

[kancutlawns]

Will Putin accept an increasing Islamicisation of Turkey though?

[Holden Mcgroyne]

Rumours abound that Russian secret services tipped off Erdogan's people about the coup attempt, giving them some time and planning on how to deal with it.

Really?

That's a surprise. I would have thought Putin would like to have seen Erdogan removed from power

Erdogan made a lot of enemies in the army and pissed off the US/Europe with his antics over the past 2 years. They were out to get him.

Erdogan's surprise move to apologise to Russia and normalise relations with them (and end support for Syria's rebels) looked to have been the last straw for them.

Putin doesn't mind Erdogan as long as he plays ball. And that's what he's now doing. He owes putin big time.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160721/ ... tempt.html

Sputnik news now obviously the go to site for current affairs updates, bye bye David Icke.

[Hillman avenger]

Sputnik, TASS, RT...workmanlike manipulation , selective reporting and outright lying...

Icke ..just simply crazy. In previous centuries people paid for a tour of Bedlam and be amused by the mad people...now he comes to you but charges you for the privilege.

[Royal24s]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

[Steve Hunt]

[Berry Cakes]

Sputnik, TASS, RT...workmanlike manipulation , selective reporting and outright lying...

Icke ..just simply crazy. In previous centuries people paid for a tour of Bedlam and be amused by the mad people...now he comes to you but charges you for the privilege.

Please take note of the the comments on The Guardian articles with respect to Syria

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... a#comments

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... e#comments

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... top-it-now

The BBC are no angels either

[The Tick]

Rumours abound that Russian secret services tipped off Erdogan's people about the coup attempt, giving them some time and planning on how to deal with it.

Really?

That's a surprise. I would have thought Putin would like to have seen Erdogan removed from power

Erdogan made a lot of enemies in the army and pissed off the US/Europe with his antics over the past 2 years. They were out to get him.

Erdogan's surprise move to apologise to Russia and normalise relations with them (and end support for Syria's rebels) looked to have been the last straw for them.

Putin doesn't mind Erdogan as long as he plays ball. And that's what he's now doing. He owes putin big time.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160721/ ... tempt.html

Sputnik news now obviously the go to site for current affairs updates, bye bye David Icke.

Okay okay let's use a Turkish news source then

http://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/201 ... -milestone?

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who is scheduled to meet his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin in St. Petersburg on Tuesday, described the reconciliation with Russia after downing a Russian jet near the Syrian border as "a milestone" in relations with Russia. Speaking at a press conference with Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev in Ankara on Friday, Erdoğan said: "We are going to leave the sour period behind and return to our old relations."

[Ralph]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

I don't trust the BBC implicitly but there's a difference between the BBC & a TV 'news' station that's directly controlled by the government. Genuine question. How much criticism of Putin is there on these Russian news stations?

[Hillman avenger]

Rumours abound that Russian secret services tipped off Erdogan's people about the coup attempt, giving them some time and planning on how to deal with it.

Really?

That's a surprise. I would have thought Putin would like to have seen Erdogan removed from power

Erdogan made a lot of enemies in the army and pissed off the US/Europe with his antics over the past 2 years. They were out to get him.

Erdogan's surprise move to apologise to Russia and normalise relations with them (and end support for Syria's rebels) looked to have been the last straw for them.

Putin doesn't mind Erdogan as long as he plays ball. And that's what he's now doing. He owes putin big time.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160721/ ... tempt.html

Sputnik news now obviously the go to site for current affairs updates, bye bye David Icke.

Okay okay let's use a Turkish news source then

http://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/201 ... -milestone?

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who is scheduled to meet his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin in St. Petersburg on Tuesday, described the reconciliation with Russia after downing a Russian jet near the Syrian border as "a milestone" in relations with Russia. Speaking at a press conference with Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev in Ankara on Friday, Erdoğan said: "We are going to leave the sour period behind and return to our old relations."

Remember that the government has imprisoned hundreds of journalists and closed down radio broadcasting and print media outlets.

[Hillman avenger]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

Wrong again.

[Royal24s]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

Wrong again.

Silly me !
You know I do very well in life for someone who's wrong all the time. I must be lucky I suppose.

[Royal24s]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

I don't trust the BBC implicitly but there's a difference between the BBC & a TV 'news' station that's directly controlled by the government. Genuine question. How much criticism of Putin is there on these Russian news stations?

Probably very little , but what's that got to do with the bbc ?
It's also true that us stations have a bias. The bbc however, is a special case because it's got a whole range of propaganda weapons, not just news, it's been in the mind control game for a very long time and it's wealthier than any other station in the world because every starving pensioner has to switch the heating off in winter to give them money or risk prison.
It injects its poison not just in news, but light entertainment where free thought and dissent are mocked by the small band of talentless "comedians " with any chance of employment by them , usually under the smug watch of convicted fraudster Stephen Fry, ( not a clever man, but an actor playing a clever man).
They put their twisted version of science discretely into natural history programming and their twisted version of history and politics into documentaries.
They're a class act, but an evil one which is hard for honest commentators to oppose in the public mind. Actually, it must be destroyed before there is any realistic hope of an educational and political renaissance in the uk.

[Hillman avenger]

Can't argue with that really, yet you trust the BBC implicitly !

I don't trust the BBC implicitly but there's a difference between the BBC & a TV 'news' station that's directly controlled by the government. Genuine question. How much criticism of Putin is there on these Russian news stations?

Probably very little , but what's that got to do with the bbc ?
What else is it about?
It's also true that us stations have a bias. The bbc however, is a special case because it's got a whole range of propaganda weapons, not just news, it's been in the mind control game for a very long time and it's wealthier than any other station in the world because every starving pensioner has to switch the heating off in winter to give them money or risk prison.
Not true. In any event over 75s do not have to pay for the licence.
It injects its poison not just in news, but light entertainment where free thought and dissent are mocked by the small band of talentless "comedians " with any chance of employment by them , usually under the smug watch of convicted fraudster Stephen Fry, ( not a clever man, but an actor playing a clever man).
They put their twisted version of science discretely into natural history programming and their twisted version of history and politics into documentaries.
Of course they do...now have a lie down.
They're a class act, but an evil one which is hard for honest commentators to oppose in the public mind. Actually, it must be destroyed before there is any realistic hope of an educational and political renaissance in the uk.
Sure. First step to a cultural revolution. Remove one of the major pillars of our culture. Make every broadcaster a Talksport.

[Ralph]

Rumours abound that Russian secret services tipped off Erdogan's people about the coup attempt, giving them some time and planning on how to deal with it.

Really?

That's a surprise. I would have thought Putin would like to have seen Erdogan removed from power

Erdogan made a lot of enemies in the army and pissed off the US/Europe with his antics over the past 2 years. They were out to get him.

Erdogan's surprise move to apologise to Russia and normalise relations with them (and end support for Syria's rebels) looked to have been the last straw for them.

Putin doesn't mind Erdogan as long as he plays ball. And that's what he's now doing. He owes putin big time.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160721/ ... tempt.html

Sputnik news now obviously the go to site for current affairs updates, bye bye David Icke.

You'd think him appearing to claim he was the son of God on prime time TV & that the world is controlled by shapeshifting lizards would mean nobody listened to what he had to say. Nope.

[Hillman avenger]

He appeals to people who can't cope with the chaos and randomness which is reality, and who need some kind of context, however bizarre, in which to see events.

It's difficult to know how to respond to people who have this need, as they can simply be really irritating, intervening in debates between rational people with their latest vomit of nonsense. it's hard to be sympathetic sometimes. But we should try to be, because it's a sign of a failure to reach maturity.

They spoil many of the threads on here.

Trump has realised he can mobilise them..by his simplistic analysis of events and his even more simplistic solutions for them. Icke makes much money, and even more importantly to him, gets his ego stroked by them. I am aware of an appearance he made near me where he spoke for seven hours and would not allow questions...and apparently people there saw no problem with that.

[Royal24s]

Oh, I'm so terribly terribly sorry. It must be most frustrating to be interrupted when you are interacting with other mature persons like the tick and kancutlawns who can cope with randomness and chaos in a mature and accepting way like yourself.
I salute your bovine credulity !
Thank you for putting up with uneducated, inarticulate and simplistic people like myself.
I'm sure I speak for all those who have made idiots of ourselves by ignoring your wise guidance and sophisticated mature acceptance of any crap served up to you , and indeed for Donald Trump himself ,when I say that we're all sorry for ever doubting Richard Nixon ,Lord Lucan or Tony Blair.
We got so responsive to a simplistic analysis of stuf that we imagined that the us government had deliberately infected black men with stds and failed to tell them or treat them till they died. We imagined that Richard Nixon had organised a burglary at the Watergate Hotel and worst of all there actually was a time when we thought Leon Brittan was a paedophile and even doubted Tony Blairs honesty abou the Iraq war and WMD s.
I'm sorry we interrupted your brilliant dialogues on the world as you see it from your council flat , and I see now that I was very very naughty to question you.

[AlcoholBrazil]

Hillman doesn't live in a council flat. He lives in a mansion with high fences and security gate to keep the nasty criminal element out.

[Zambo]

Hillman doesn't live in a council flat. He lives in a mansion with high fences and security gate to keep the nasty criminal element out.

Isle of Wigit isn't it.

Wonder what he thought about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... oor-ghetto

[kancutlawns]

Oh, I'm so terribly terribly sorry. It must be most frustrating to be interrupted when you are interacting with other mature persons like the tick and kancutlawns who can cope with randomness and chaos in a mature and accepting way like yourself.
I salute your bovine credulity !
Thank you for putting up with uneducated, inarticulate and simplistic people like myself.
I'm sure I speak for all those who have made idiots of ourselves by ignoring your wise guidance and sophisticated mature acceptance of any crap served up to you , and indeed for Donald Trump himself ,when I say that we're all sorry for ever doubting Richard Nixon ,Lord Lucan or Tony Blair.
We got so responsive to a simplistic analysis of stuf that we imagined that the us government had deliberately infected black men with stds and failed to tell them or treat them till they died. We imagined that Richard Nixon had organised a burglary at the Watergate Hotel and worst of all there actually was a time when we thought Leon Brittan was a paedophile and even doubted Tony Blairs honesty abou the Iraq war and WMD s.
I'm sorry we interrupted your brilliant dialogues on the world as you see it from your council flat , and I see now that I was very very naughty to question you.

[Hillman avenger]

Oh, I'm so terribly terribly sorry. It must be most frustrating to be interrupted when you are interacting with other mature persons like the tick and kancutlawns who can cope with randomness and chaos in a mature and accepting way like yourself.
I salute your bovine credulity !
Thank you for putting up with uneducated, inarticulate and simplistic people like myself.
I'm sure I speak for all those who have made idiots of ourselves by ignoring your wise guidance and sophisticated mature acceptance of any crap served up to you , and indeed for Donald Trump himself ,when I say that we're all sorry for ever doubting Richard Nixon ,Lord Lucan or Tony Blair.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with any of them?
We got so responsive to a simplistic analysis of stuf that we imagined that the us government had deliberately infected black men with stds and failed to tell them or treat them till they died. We imagined that Richard Nixon had organised a burglary at the Watergate Hotel and worst of all there actually was a time when we thought Leon Brittan was a paedophile and even doubted Tony Blairs honesty abou the Iraq war and WMD s.
I'm sorry we interrupted your brilliant dialogues on the world as you see it from your council flat , and I see now that I was very very naughty to question you
Dear me. Had a bad day? Nobody ever said there were not conspiracies, liars and so on. It's the insistence on claiming they dominate virtually everything which is childish and tedious. Indeed, within an hour or so of the Turkey attempted coup that you were on here telling us with your assumed authority that it "looked like a company (CIA) job". You couldn't have been more wrong, could you?
Nixon always seemed to me like a megalomaniac, and it was no surprise he was involved in what he did. You never seemed to grasp that people who called out your bullshit may NOT automatically support those you oppose. As for Trump, let's say it once again....there isn't a problem to which he is the answer..that does not mean blindly supporting Clinton either, but just considering what havoc he would cause.

[Royal24s]

Oh, I'm so terribly terribly sorry. It must be most frustrating to be interrupted when you are interacting with other mature persons like the tick and kancutlawns who can cope with randomness and chaos in a mature and accepting way like yourself.
I salute your bovine credulity !
Thank you for putting up with uneducated, inarticulate and simplistic people like myself.
I'm sure I speak for all those who have made idiots of ourselves by ignoring your wise guidance and sophisticated mature acceptance of any crap served up to you , and indeed for Donald Trump himself ,when I say that we're all sorry for ever doubting Richard Nixon ,Lord Lucan or Tony Blair.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with any of them?
We got so responsive to a simplistic analysis of stuf that we imagined that the us government had deliberately infected black men with stds and failed to tell them or treat them till they died. We imagined that Richard Nixon had organised a burglary at the Watergate Hotel and worst of all there actually was a time when we thought Leon Brittan was a paedophile and even doubted Tony Blairs honesty abou the Iraq war and WMD s.
I'm sorry we interrupted your brilliant dialogues on the world as you see it from your council flat , and I see now that I was very very naughty to question you
Dear me. Had a bad day? Nobody ever said there were not conspiracies, liars and so on. It's the insistence on claiming they dominate virtually everything which is childish and tedious. Indeed, within an hour or so of the Turkey attempted coup that you were on here telling us with your assumed authority that it "looked like a company (CIA) job". You couldn't have been more wrong, could you?
Nixon always seemed to me like a megalomaniac, and it was no surprise he was involved in what he did. You never seemed to grasp that people who called out your bullshit may NOT automatically support those you oppose. As for Trump, let's say it once again....there isn't a problem to which he is the answer..that does not mean blindly supporting Clinton either, but just considering what havoc he would cause.

Well, of course it does mean supporting Killery since she's the only other one running who could win, and working only with my simplistic logic it would seem to me that merely not voting for Donald Trump is supporting Clinton .
Don't see that he'd cause me any havoc actually, but that's probably my lack of education and insight . I mean , I'm so bloody silly that I haven't even believed that the cia had no knowledge or involvement in the coup ! It's not as if they'd have any agendas or motives which weren't transparent is it ?
In any case, I was only apologising for spoiling your high level intellectual dialogues with the other great thinkers and academics of the forum, and so I must apologise that my apology was insufficient. Perhaps I expressed myself in a clumsy way, or my self awareness was slipping again. I know that you have high standards of self awareness ,( whatever that is), and it must give you a dreadful headache trying to think down to my level.
I think I misunderstood the title of the forum, but I've now realised that it entirely ruins the debate if people disagree with you. If they had a bit more self awareness they wouldn't do that !

[Royal24s]

No wonder you're so annoyed about all those bloody idiots disagreeing with you about the EU and Donald Trump. Cheeky bastards !

[paolo]

i wonder if operation gladio was real

i wonder if it was operated by the cia

i wonder if similar cia programs have replaced it

i wonder if the following words will be included in the statndard responses: icke, tin foil hat, lizards, aliens, conspiracy

or will some wanker troll around highlighting spelling mistakes?

[Hillman avenger]

Hillman doesn't live in a council flat. He lives in a mansion with high fences and security gate to keep the nasty criminal element out.

Isle of Wigit isn't it.

Wonder what he thought about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... oor-ghetto

He's right if for the wrong reasons.
His comments about "most people go there for the sailing" have had him condemned as a snob out of touch with the 100,000 or so who actually live and work on the Island.
What industry there is , is on the north side of the island, while the south of the island is in economic decline. It may be pretty, but it has unemployment and deprivation the equal of parts of the north.
The tourist industry is in decline, and in my opinion it only has a future as a real community if it finds an answer to the economic problems. Given its isolation the answer may be in investing in "knowledge industry" where physical location is less of an issue. To do that it would need higher than average educational attainment, whereas it achieves in the bottom quartile and sends less of its children to university.
It needs the parents to mobilise and demand better of the complacent council, but it seems to me that most parents are asleep on this problem and don't realise their kids need more from the system than they had.
This man's arrogance has allowed people to attack him and not heed the message he offers.