Coup in Turkey

[Hillman avenger]

Oh, I'm so terribly terribly sorry. It must be most frustrating to be interrupted when you are interacting with other mature persons like the tick and kancutlawns who can cope with randomness and chaos in a mature and accepting way like yourself.
I salute your bovine credulity !
Thank you for putting up with uneducated, inarticulate and simplistic people like myself.
I'm sure I speak for all those who have made idiots of ourselves by ignoring your wise guidance and sophisticated mature acceptance of any crap served up to you , and indeed for Donald Trump himself ,when I say that we're all sorry for ever doubting Richard Nixon ,Lord Lucan or Tony Blair.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with any of them?
We got so responsive to a simplistic analysis of stuf that we imagined that the us government had deliberately infected black men with stds and failed to tell them or treat them till they died. We imagined that Richard Nixon had organised a burglary at the Watergate Hotel and worst of all there actually was a time when we thought Leon Brittan was a paedophile and even doubted Tony Blairs honesty abou the Iraq war and WMD s.
I'm sorry we interrupted your brilliant dialogues on the world as you see it from your council flat , and I see now that I was very very naughty to question you
Dear me. Had a bad day? Nobody ever said there were not conspiracies, liars and so on. It's the insistence on claiming they dominate virtually everything which is childish and tedious. Indeed, within an hour or so of the Turkey attempted coup that you were on here telling us with your assumed authority that it "looked like a company (CIA) job". You couldn't have been more wrong, could you?
Nixon always seemed to me like a megalomaniac, and it was no surprise he was involved in what he did. You never seemed to grasp that people who called out your bullshit may NOT automatically support those you oppose. As for Trump, let's say it once again....there isn't a problem to which he is the answer..that does not mean blindly supporting Clinton either, but just considering what havoc he would cause.

Well, of course it does mean supporting Killery since she's the only other one running who could win, and working only with my simplistic logic it would seem to me that merely not voting for Donald Trump is supporting Clinton .
Yes it does.The lesser evil. They should be asking themselves how a nation of 330m people can't find people better than these two.
Don't see that he'd cause me any havoc actually, but that's probably my lack of education and insight . I mean , I'm so bloody silly that I haven't even believed that the cia had no knowledge or involvement in the coup ! It's not as if they'd have any agendas or motives which weren't transparent is it ?
You weighed in within hours with your view that it was CIA-facilitated. No doubt they were interested in what happened, but that does not mean they led it. It looks much like Erdogan knew of it and let it run so he could take the opportunity to sweep away opposition. By any analysis, if this was the CIA they did very badly. But in the absence of any other evidence chances were it wasn't them anyway.
In any case, I was only apologising for spoiling your high level intellectual dialogues with the other great thinkers and academics of the forum, and so I must apologise that my apology was insufficient. Perhaps I expressed myself in a clumsy way, or my self awareness was slipping again. I know that you have high standards of self awareness ,( whatever that is), and it must give you a dreadful headache trying to think down to my level.
I think I misunderstood the title of the forum, but I've now realised that it entirely ruins the debate if people disagree with you. If they had a bit more self awareness they wouldn't do that !
Nice try, but wrong. If everyone here had the same views, it wouldn't be much fun. Asking people to back up what they say is part of the idea, and leaning on conspiracy theories is one of the laziest ways of doing that. That doesn't mean there are not conspiracies, but they'd be very much the exception than the rule.

[Royal24s]

Actually, the CIA have occasionally been known to fuck up you know. They've also been known to organise the odd coup or revolution and pull the rug out at the last moment to achieve a result they wanted, but the clever thing is, you see,that they don't SAY they wanted that result, or that they deliberately held back whatever support the Rebels were expecting.
It's all quite complicated really, and I don't think it's advisable for you to think about it too much in case you get a headache and start feeling dizzy.

To address your point about an argument being lazy or otherwise, that's strange too really, because I thought the object was to be correct rather than energetic. Also, I can't quite see that your own method of simply believing whatever the man on tv tells you is terribly difficult.

The term conspiracy theory was actually invented by the cia you know, and they create silly ones all the time so that half wits will be dubious of anything which catches them out as soon as they use that expression, which they do in the same way as other illusionists and conjurers use "abracadabra ".
I don't mind that you're never going to see through the simplest deception or crime. In fact it must be a very contented state of mind, but I have to challenge it because you might otherwise pass the idiot view onto others like a virus.

[Hillman avenger]

You take yourself way, way too seriously.

The product of your "reasoning" is that the CIA will be behind everything, but just to throw us off the trail they throw in the odd mistake.

Deranged.

[Royal24s]

That's right I said the CIA was behind everything didn't I ? Except I didn't of course, and that means I'm deranged.

I take it that you realise you've lost the discussion if you're at the name calling stage.

[paolo]

Some say the via were behind the murder of a US president and attempted murder of another

[Hillman avenger]

That's right I said the CIA was behind everything didn't I ? Except I didn't of course, and that means I'm deranged.

I take it that you realise you've lost the discussion if you're at the name calling stage.

As you usually start with it I know only too well.

As for the CIA, guess what? It's not a surprise to anyone that it is at work around the world , that it intervenes in foreign states ( especially in South America) and that is sometimes fucks up...that's not the same as they are the main cause, all the time.

You have this absolutist mindset- another example is that if I think Trump is a disaster therefore I worship Clinton. Not the case. The lesser of two evils.

[Royal24s]

You are quite drawn to killery though aren't you ?
She's very evil and powerful, and she says all the stuff you like.

And I don't start it Hillman. I've practically begged you not to do it, but I'll do it back twice every time as long as you insist on trying to make smart arsed comments and throw insults around.
You're a typical bully who can dish it out but can't take it. Try being civil and everyone else will too.

[Hillman avenger]

You are quite drawn to killery though aren't you ?
No. Only in your imagination. I am not a fan. As I have said numerous times..the lesser of two evils..and an indictment of their political system, that they can only produce these two.
She's very evil and powerful, and she says all the stuff you like.
No. But at least she doesn't encourage foaming-at-the-mouth nutters to kill her opponent.
And I don't start it Hillman. I've practically begged you not to do it, but I'll do it back twice every time as long as you insist on trying to make smart arsed comments and throw insults around.
You're a typical bully who can dish it out but can't take it. Try being civil and everyone else will too.
Not worth trying that line now. Go back and look at the threads where you have thrown in unprovoked comments about me..attributing to me stuff I have never thought or said..tell me when I "have not been able to take it" because nothing you have done has bothered me, but just underlined your lack of real content. I'd much rather have lively debate, but you don't seem to want that.

[Royal24s]

I'd have thought it was lively debate with or without the name calling, but you really do start it.
I see that the guy who leaked killerys emails to Wikipedia has been assassinated . Just a coincidence I expect.

[kancutlawns]

I'd have thought it was lively debate with or without the name calling, but you really do start it.
I see that the guy who leaked killerys emails to Wikipedia has been assassinated . Just a coincidence I expect.

Any links to this story?

[Hillman avenger]

I've no doubt the email saga has been a problem for her.

The only snag with your suggestion is they aren't actually very good at it, are they? Not much point now it's out there.

[Royal24s]

Well I'm pretty sure there are going to be a lot more leaks and that we haven't yet seen anything like the most serious ones.

[Royal24s]

I think they're saving the really damaging ones for mid to late October .
That'll be the October Surprise .

[paolo]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

[Hillman avenger]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

There's been discussion about that for the last two weeks on here.

Did you not notice?

If the CIA did have a hand in it, it did a truly lousy job.

cue abuse

[kancutlawns]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

It was a failed coup regardless of whether or not the CIA instigated it.

[paolo]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

There's been discussion about that for the last two weeks on here.

Did you not notice?

If the CIA did have a hand in it, it did a truly lousy job.

cue abuse

Hillman

You don't speak to me, I don't speak to you

It's what we both agreed for the good of the forum

The clock resets again

Now fuck off and die

[paolo]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

It was a failed coup regardless of whether or not the CIA instigated it.

Yes, it would appear that the coup failed

[paolo]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

It was a failed coup regardless of whether or not the CIA instigated it.

Yes, it would appear that the coup failed

[The Tick]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

yea but they entrusted it to an incompetent bunch.

and with the Russian secret services tipping off erdogan's lot, the coup suffered a setback.

[paolo]

I wonder if the cia had a hand in the Turkish coup

yea but they entrusted it to an incompetent bunch.

and with the Russian secret services tipping off erdogan's lot, the coup suffered a setback.

Sure I heard another here poo poo cia involvement in such matters

[Steve Hunt]

Is Turkey still a democracy (if it ever was?):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37883006

Consider what has happened in the past week:

The co-mayors of the largest Kurdish-majority city, Diyarbakir, were arrested for alleged links to the PKK Kurdish militants, which Turkey and the West label a terrorist group.
Another 10,000 civil servants were dismissed, charged with supporting Fethullah Gulen, the US-based cleric whom the government believes masterminded the failed coup. This takes the number of suspended or dismissed public servants since July to 100,000.
A further 137 academics in Ankara were served with an arrest warrant for alleged Gulen links. Some 37,000 people have now been arrested since July.
The law was changed to allow President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to choose university rectors, instead of academics electing a candidate.
Fifteen more media outlets were closed. Around 170 have been shut since July.
The editor, cartoonist, and other staff at Turkey's oldest mainstream newspaper, Cumhuriyet, were arrested on charges of supporting the PKK and Fethullah Gulen. Cumhuriyet is a bastion of secularism that has regularly condemned Kurdish militancy and the Islamist Gulen movement.
The leaders and several MPs of Turkey's third largest political party, the pro-Kurdish HDP, were arrested for alleged links to the PKK. Party supporters say it's an attempt to push the HDP out of parliament and increase Mr Erdogan's power. Hours later, a car bomb killed nine people in Diyarbakir. The government blamed the PKK, but the so-called Islamic State issued a questionable claim of responsibility.
The government cut the internet to southeast Turkey and "throttled" services such as WhatsApp, Twitter and private networks (VPNs) across the country, slowing them down to make them unusable.
The Turkish lira plummeted to a record low against the US dollar.
After criticism from the EU, with the head of the European Parliament saying Turkey had "crossed a red line", the prime minister hit back with, "Brother, we don't care about your red line… we draw another red line on top of yours", and the president accused Germany of harbouring terrorists.

Yet Turkey remains a key ally of the West

[Basualdo]

I like the criticism of Turkey by the EU, that paragon of democracy.

[Steve Hunt]

If the EU goes further in its policy against Turkey, Ankara will open the borders for refugees willing to enter the EU countries, said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Turkey's president has strongly criticized the EU today, accusing it of breaking promises on refugees.

Speaking in Istanbul, Erdogan said it was Turkey which was feeding over three million refugees.
Addressing the EU, he added: “You did not keep your word. When 50,000 refugees were at the Kapikule [Turkey-Bulgaria] border, you cried out.
“You started to say: 'What will we do if Turkey opens border gates?'”
“If you go too far, the border gates will be opened", he said.

Erdogan's statement followed the European Parliament's approval on Thursday of a non-binding motion to freeze EU-membership talks with Turkey.

Membership negotiations between Turkey and the EU began in October 2005.