Corbyn

[kancutlawns]

I think you're right Ralph. There isn't any appetite for a split and the party will become even more polarised than now. I don't think it's exaggerating things to say that Labour are facing an existential threat. Nothing will be done about it in the foreseeable future because the members are so numerous and strong.

[Ralph]

I think you're right Ralph. There isn't any appetite for a split and the party will become even more polarised than now. I don't think it's exaggerating things to say that Labour are facing an existential threat. Nothing will be done about it in the foreseeable future because the members are so numerous and strong.

And think Jeremy Corbyn is a kindly old man who just wants Labour to win an election on a left wing manifesto & evil 'Blairites' are standing in his way.

[kancutlawns]

Do you think that his supporters and members have turned Corbyn into a cult of personality? This is what Alan Johnson said recently.

[Ralph]

Do you think that his supporters and members have turned Corbyn into a cult of personality? This is what Alan Johnson said recently.

Cult's too strong. He's telling them what they want to hear & they've closed their ears to anyone who dares point out how dire Labour's situation has become under his leadership.

[Zippy]

Do you think that his supporters and members have turned Corbyn into a cult of personality? This is what Alan Johnson said recently.

Absolutely.

The High Sparrow from Game Of Thrones comparisons are not too far off the mark.

[The Tick]

Do you think that his supporters and members have turned Corbyn into a cult of personality? This is what Alan Johnson said recently.

its not just about Corbyn, it's about the vision and values he represents. People are desperately crying out for an alternative to the unjust status quo. That was what partly contributed to Brexit.

When you have two main political parties spouting the same neo liberal bullshit it's no surprise that people become interested in the first thing that challenges that. We always get people complaining that all politicians are the same. Then when one comes along and proposes an alternative suddenly we condemn him for not being the same as the others.

[Steve Hunt]

When you have two main political parties spouting the same neo liberal bullshit it's no surprise that people become interested in the first thing that challenges that. We always get people complaining that all politicians are the same. Then when one comes along and proposes an alternative suddenly we condemn him for not being the same as the others.

[Ralph]

When you have two main political parties spouting the same neo liberal bullshit it's no surprise that people become interested in the first thing that challenges that. We always get people complaining that all politicians are the same. Then when one comes along and proposes an alternative suddenly we condemn him for not being the same as the others.

Is there any evidence to back this up though.


Theresa May's Tories are double digits ahead in the polls & Corbyn has approval ratings lower than Iain Duncan Smith's were when the Tories ditched him.

Corbyn's appeal doesn't seem to stretch much beyond the people voting for him the leadership contest.

[Steve Hunt]

Corbyn's appeal doesn't seem to stretch much beyond the people voting for him the leadership contest.

That may be the case, Ralph - though he has had some by-election success.

But is there any evidence to suggest that a Blairite leader would fare any better? Divided parties do not win elections. Would a Blairite be ale to heal the rifts given that the membership seems to favour Corbyn?

[Ralph]

Corbyn's appeal doesn't seem to stretch much beyond the people voting for him the leadership contest.

That may be the case, Ralph - though he has had some by-election success.

But is there any evidence to suggest that a Blairite leader would fare any better? Divided parties do not win elections. Would a Blairite be ale to heal the rifts given that the membership seems to favour Corbyn?

I agree about the divided parties, however Corbyn's own approval ratings are record breakingly terrible. Labour are in a far worse position now than they were 12 months into Ed Miliband's leadership. I think the evidence that they'd do better under another leader is overwhelming. Somebody who is performing a lot worse than Ed Miliband (who him himself was nearly replaced) is not irreplaceable. Labour members favour him but they're not even representative of Labour voters let alone the electorate as a whole.

[m4rkb]

Corbyn's appeal doesn't seem to stretch much beyond the people voting for him the leadership contest.

That may be the case, Ralph - though he has had some by-election success.

But is there any evidence to suggest that a Blairite leader would fare any better? Divided parties do not win elections. Would a Blairite be ale to heal the rifts given that the membership seems to favour Corbyn?

Corbyn seems to have more respect among Right wingers for being honest about his politics than he gets from the moderns Labour party. I respect him myself . I wouldn't vote for him because I don't like many aspects of his politics but no one is in any doubt what they are. John McDonnell's rant at Alistair Campbell on QT last Thursday was spot on. Corbyn got elected because people were fed up with lying politicians and wanted someone honest at the helm.

The trouble is, the bulk of the Labour party are still dishonest and want someone from the apparent centre ground to win them an election and then implement leftist policies no one wants bar them , or wants bar them - usually more mass uncontrolled immigration and equality bollocks rather than anything the original party was set up for like jobs and the well-being of our own people first.

[Steve Hunt]

The trouble is, the bulk of the Labour party are still dishonest and want someone from the apparent centre ground to win them an election and then implement leftist policies no one wants bar them , or wants bar them - usually more mass uncontrolled immigration and equality bollocks rather than anything the original party was set up for like jobs and the well-being of our own people first.

Indeed.

Labour stopped representing it's core supporters decades ago. For example, more mines were closed during Harold Wilson’s (253 pits) two terms in office than in Thatcher’s (115) three.

[finchman]

All the tories who stumped up 25 quid to vote this dick back in will think its money well spent.

[m4rkb]

It was interesting to hear what the BBC had to say today. Apparently Smith is just as left wing as Corbyn but doesn't come across as such so appeals more to the electorate.

In the end the more honest of the two men won, much to the annoyance of those hoping to con their way into power.

[The Tick]

An unnecessary battle to have fought, but Corbyn had no choice.

Hopefully the party can unite behind him and set about fighting the conservatives with a manifesto that genuinely offers an alternative to the status quo.

[Royal24s]

When you have two main political parties spouting the same neo liberal bullshit it's no surprise that people become interested in the first thing that challenges that. We always get people complaining that all politicians are the same. Then when one comes along and proposes an alternative suddenly we condemn him for not being the same as the others.

Is there any evidence to back this up though.


Theresa May's Tories are double digits ahead in the polls & Corbyn has approval ratings lower than Iain Duncan Smith's were when the Tories ditched him.

Corbyn's appeal doesn't seem to stretch much beyond the people voting for him the leadership contest.

That doesn't matter unless you're tied to the Monster Raving New Labour Party, ( which, in the words of Tony Bennet is OVER), but the other lot are labouring , ( no pun intended), under the misapprehension that they're any better off.
They're not. They've just temporarily fallen on their feet following the referendum and the aforesaid implosion of their opponents.
The general public are just as disillusioned with both sets of lying venal tossers and as we watch the EU come totalky unravelled during the next few years , we shall see the conservatives become just as irrelevant as labour.
People are onto all of them now Ralph, and they will demand and eventually get a new form of politics in which the wishes of the people and the interests of the country are a consideration to those who want a job working FOR the electorate rather than ruling over them as if they have been appointed over them by God, ( which is what most of them seem to imagine, and what they seem to have convinced some people of so much that they can't let go of the idea ).

[Royal24s]

Ps. Not accusing of being a serial killer or anything in the above.

[AlcoholBrazil]

Rather a washed up old unelectable hippie that shuffles around castles wearing kagooles , than a slimy snake-oil salesman
that would sell his own grandmother to get another rung up the greasy pole and his knob rubbed by his EU paymasters.

[paolo]

path clear for a faux apologetic blair to come back?

[Ralph]

Ps. Not accusing of being a serial killer or anything in the above.

Good. Then I won't accuse you of being a ludicrous Walter Mitty.

[Royal24s]

No, please don't do that Ralph. It's disappointing because I regard you as the only left leaning contributor here who can argue his point politely and without resorting to name calling .
When you apparently thought I was accusing you of making excuses for Hitler I thought that was daft and so I made a good humoured comment in the spirit of reinforcing that I had not intended or done that.

Look, if you find your socialist arguments running out, why don't you re evaluate them instead of substituting nastiness like all the others seem to.
It must be frustrating to defend the indefensible against the tide of truth logic and common sense when you have earnestly believed in a philosophy, but once you start playing the man instead if the ball there's no way back.

[Ralph]

No, please don't do that Ralph. It's disappointing because I regard you as the only left leaning contributor here who can argue his point politely and without resorting to name calling .
When you apparently thought I was accusing you of making excuses for Hitler I thought that was daft and so I made a good humoured comment in the spirit of reinforcing that I had not intended or done that.

Look, if you find your socialist arguments running out, why don't you re evaluate them instead of substituting nastiness like all the others seem to.
It must be frustrating to defend the indefensible against the tide of truth logic and common sense when you have earnestly believed in a philosophy, but once you start playing the man instead if the ball there's no way back.

You accused me, out of the blue, of making excuses for anti-semitism. If that isn't playing the man & not the ball I don't know what is. Why you keep denying you said it is beyond me.

Well, I wasn't justifying him Ralph.
I was merely pointing out that he was a socialist. Interesting excuse there for anti semitism - but ALL socialists have one excuse or another for that don't they ?
Incidentally, didn't Stalin put trade unionists and other socialists into death camps too ?
In fact he killed more people than Hitler by a long way, but one hesitates to point that out because it generally results in erroneous accusations of liking Hitler.

The idea that you judge people by what they do rather than what they call themselves and their parties is exactly what I've sought to persuade you to for a long time Ralph, so I'm not going to argue with that.

Has anyone other than me suggested your grip on reality isn't as firm as it could be?

[Royal24s]

No one with an IQ over room temperature, or of any particular consequence in the world .
Even then it's only ever been in this forum, and sprung from spiteful and stupid individuals who haven't ever done anything with their lives and so find it implausible that anyone else might have done.
The fact is though, young man, that my grip on reality is a strong and effective one which has very often been fortunate for those who lack the courage as well as the physical and mental prowess to look after themselves in the real world. I've got the scars and decorations to prove that, as well I believe, as the respect of those whose opinions might matter to me.
Unlike many , I like people and that is why I seek to encourage higher thinking and personal progress in those who might seem on the face of it to be condemned to mediocrity and disappointment - people who many would simply write off.
I have had some success in this down the years, but it is an unfortunate fact that many losers are that because they cannot overcome the limitations of their mean spirited nature and fear of standing out from the crowd .
If you want to be bloody rude that's your choice. It's a bad decision because if I did choose to reciprocate I'd eat you for breakfast.
Incidentally, I was noting the anti Semitic nature of socialism and that Hitler was in fact a socialist as an argument against socialism, and since we're being so frank, that should have been perfectly clear to anyone who speaks English.
Now, if you've decided that you'd like to join the ranks of the plain abusive keyboard warriors that's entirely up to you, but your opinions will consequently hold far less credibility to the objective mind.
It seems that you cannot distinguish between good manners and weakness, and that's very often a mistake.
For the time being I will continue to treat you with courtesy, and you might even reconsider your position, but if you'd prefer a slanging match you go for it.

[Ralph]

No one with an IQ over room temperature, or of any particular consequence in the world .
Even then it's only ever been in this forum, and sprung from spiteful and stupid individuals who haven't ever done anything with their lives and so find it implausible that anyone else might have done.
The fact is though, young man, that my grip on reality is a strong and effective one which has very often been fortunate for those who lack the courage as well as the physical and mental prowess to look after themselves in the real world. I've got the scars and decorations to prove that, as well I believe, as the respect of those whose opinions might matter to me.
Unlike many , I like people and that is why I seek to encourage higher thinking and personal progress in those who might seem on the face of it to be condemned to mediocrity and disappointment - people who many would simply write off.
I have had some success in this down the years, but it is an unfortunate fact that many losers are that because they cannot overcome the limitations of their mean spirited nature and fear of standing out from the crowd .
If you want to be bloody rude that's your choice. It's a bad decision because if I did choose to reciprocate I'd eat you for breakfast.
Incidentally, I was noting the anti Semitic nature of socialism and that Hitler was in fact a socialist as an argument against socialism, and since we're being so frank, that should have been perfectly clear to anyone who speaks English.
Now, if you've decided that you'd like to join the ranks of the plain abusive keyboard warriors that's entirely up to you, but your opinions will consequently hold far less credibility to the objective mind.
It seems that you cannot distinguish between good manners and weakness, and that's very often a mistake.
For the time being I will continue to treat you with courtesy, and you might even reconsider your position, but if you'd prefer a slanging match you go for it.

Another long-winded, word salad.

I've not decided to become abusive. I've quickly moved on from your offensive/snide comments at least three times now & you've taken it as invitation to continue to take the piss.

[Royal24s]

Well then I shall resist the temptation to actually take the piss, as opposed to being good humoured,as well as ignoring the Hillman type derogatory comment you started that with, and I suggest that we draw a line under it.