The Religion of Peace? (Part 2)

[Hillman avenger]

So the bible warns us against socialism, does it?

Not the centuries of oppression, cruelty, torture, war, persecution, the ruthless extermination of the jewish race, the mutual murder of slavs and germans, the barbarism of fundamental islam...

Socialism

FFS

[Royal24s]

Luke 19:27 seems pretty clear, I guess it's all in the interpretation much like the Koran.

It's all in the person as well.

Anyone who is violent will interpret ambiguous passages violently. Those who aren't, won't.

You'd think we were never given brains to think for ourselves.

You'd think people wouldn't take a book of quotes so seriously, but some do



Firstly, it's not a book of quotes. It's the word of God. Those who study it properly will take it seriously because it is impossible to find a mistake and easy to find perfect wisdom, and a knowledge of science, history , human nature and even the future which the human men recording it could not have known.
What you can do, and you've done here, is to take a phrase out of context and misrepresent the meaning , or take two phrases out of context , compare them and suggest a contradiction which isn't there. I hope you didn't do that deliberately.

I looked up the passage you quoted, and it's just part of a parable - a story to demonstrate a point, ( in this case to do the best you can with what you're given and some would argue actually to warn us of the dangers to come in future from socialism).
Your passage merely quotes what the king in the story said. It isn't an instruction to Christans at all.
You might equally have taken a line from the parable of the Prodigal Son and claimed that we are being told to spend all our money on prostitutes because it tells us that someone did that in the story.

You've got to read the whole thing before you can even start to understand it. That is when you can use your brain AND your soul and your prayers to see the truth in it

It is most certainly a book of quotes, not once does either Jesus or "God" contribute directly to the bible, they are quoted by others in every instance.

If I was going to go for a quote out of context deliberately I would have done better, maybe Matthew 10:34 for instance

I didn't say that you did it deliberately. I really don't think you'd do that warm - we frequently disagree but I'm sure you're a decent person doing and saying what you believe to be true. With every respect I think I'm a bit older than you and it's often the case, you know, that when some old fossil tells you something you reject it, but it may come back to you years later and the intervening years have given you the experience to understand it. That certainly happened to me a lot so I'm not putting you down in any way by saying that.
That's why I bother saying stuff like this probably - it might seem to be falling on stony ground right now ( since we're being biblical ), but more often than you'd think these things come back to you later and the penny drops.

I still occasionally feel guilty that I gave nothing but trouble and endless arguments to the Deputy Headmaster at my school, whom I regarded as an idiotic relic of the Empire with quite ridiculous ideas and arguments but as the years have passed every one of the daft things he said turned out to be true. It's not so much a matter of cleverness you see, but the sometimes painful experience of learning the hard way how things really are. If that sounds patronising, I'm sorry and I understand why it would, but it's true you see.

[Royal24s]

So the bible warns us against socialism, does it?

Not the centuries of oppression, cruelty, torture, war, persecution, the ruthless extermination of the jewish race, the mutual murder of slavs and germans, the barbarism of fundamental islam...

Socialism

FFS

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say there Hillman. Is your second paragraph an indictment of Christianity ? If so, you could certainly say the same of socialism couldn't you ?

If that IS your point , then you defeat it yourself by suggesting that Christianity is a bad thing if people did bad things in it's name, but don't reach the same conclusion because Stalin for example , killed millions in the name of socialism.

Does the Bible warn us about socialism ? I believe so, but some would disagree and interpret texts as recommending socialism. I think the Jesuits go down that line.
Too big a discussion to have here really . We all choose what we think is true in such matters and we will all stand or fall on these choices.

[warmleatherette]

Luke 19:27 seems pretty clear, I guess it's all in the interpretation much like the Koran.

It's all in the person as well.

Anyone who is violent will interpret ambiguous passages violently. Those who aren't, won't.

You'd think we were never given brains to think for ourselves.

You'd think people wouldn't take a book of quotes so seriously, but some do



Firstly, it's not a book of quotes. It's the word of God. Those who study it properly will take it seriously because it is impossible to find a mistake and easy to find perfect wisdom, and a knowledge of science, history , human nature and even the future which the human men recording it could not have known.
What you can do, and you've done here, is to take a phrase out of context and misrepresent the meaning , or take two phrases out of context , compare them and suggest a contradiction which isn't there. I hope you didn't do that deliberately.

I looked up the passage you quoted, and it's just part of a parable - a story to demonstrate a point, ( in this case to do the best you can with what you're given and some would argue actually to warn us of the dangers to come in future from socialism).
Your passage merely quotes what the king in the story said. It isn't an instruction to Christans at all.
You might equally have taken a line from the parable of the Prodigal Son and claimed that we are being told to spend all our money on prostitutes because it tells us that someone did that in the story.

You've got to read the whole thing before you can even start to understand it. That is when you can use your brain AND your soul and your prayers to see the truth in it

It is most certainly a book of quotes, not once does either Jesus or "God" contribute directly to the bible, they are quoted by others in every instance.

If I was going to go for a quote out of context deliberately I would have done better, maybe Matthew 10:34 for instance

I didn't say that you did it deliberately. I really don't think you'd do that warm - we frequently disagree but I'm sure you're a decent person doing and saying what you believe to be true. With every respect I think I'm a bit older than you and it's often the case, you know, that when some old fossil tells you something you reject it, but it may come back to you years later and the intervening years have given you the experience to understand it. That certainly happened to me a lot so I'm not putting you down in any way by saying that.
That's why I bother saying stuff like this probably - it might seem to be falling on stony ground right now ( since we're being biblical ), but more often than you'd think these things come back to you later and the penny drops.

I still occasionally feel guilty that I gave nothing but trouble and endless arguments to the Deputy Headmaster at my school, whom I regarded as an idiotic relic of the Empire with quite ridiculous ideas and arguments but as the years have passed every one of the daft things he said turned out to be true. It's not so much a matter of cleverness you see, but the sometimes painful experience of learning the hard way how things really are. If that sounds patronising, I'm sorry and I understand why it would, but it's true you see.

You're a good man Royals, I enjoy our debates and you always have a thoughtful answer, maybe not always the correct one but thoughtful all the same, I can't debate faith or belief (it's impossible) and wouldn't deliberately mock it, but I will point out what I consider to be inconsistencies if I believe they're lacking or unfair ( a big one in my book), that isn't attacking the word of God, that's pointing out the mistakes of mans interpretation of it.

[Royal24s]

Hillman, you often speak of so called " self awareness ", which really means nothing generally, but in these matters there is a vital element of man' s spiritual element , which enables you to understand things which are not possible if you are not aware that you have it.

[Royal24s]

Luke 19:27 seems pretty clear, I guess it's all in the interpretation much like the Koran.

It's all in the person as well.

Anyone who is violent will interpret ambiguous passages violently. Those who aren't, won't.

You'd think we were never given brains to think for ourselves.

You'd think people wouldn't take a book of quotes so seriously, but some do



Firstly, it's not a book of quotes. It's the word of God. Those who study it properly will take it seriously because it is impossible to find a mistake and easy to find perfect wisdom, and a knowledge of science, history , human nature and even the future which the human men recording it could not have known.
What you can do, and you've done here, is to take a phrase out of context and misrepresent the meaning , or take two phrases out of context , compare them and suggest a contradiction which isn't there. I hope you didn't do that deliberately.

I looked up the passage you quoted, and it's just part of a parable - a story to demonstrate a point, ( in this case to do the best you can with what you're given and some would argue actually to warn us of the dangers to come in future from socialism).
Your passage merely quotes what the king in the story said. It isn't an instruction to Christans at all.
You might equally have taken a line from the parable of the Prodigal Son and claimed that we are being told to spend all our money on prostitutes because it tells us that someone did that in the story.

You've got to read the whole thing before you can even start to understand it. That is when you can use your brain AND your soul and your prayers to see the truth in it

It is most certainly a book of quotes, not once does either Jesus or "God" contribute directly to the bible, they are quoted by others in every instance.

If I was going to go for a quote out of context deliberately I would have done better, maybe Matthew 10:34 for instance

I didn't say that you did it deliberately. I really don't think you'd do that warm - we frequently disagree but I'm sure you're a decent person doing and saying what you believe to be true. With every respect I think I'm a bit older than you and it's often the case, you know, that when some old fossil tells you something you reject it, but it may come back to you years later and the intervening years have given you the experience to understand it. That certainly happened to me a lot so I'm not putting you down in any way by saying that.
That's why I bother saying stuff like this probably - it might seem to be falling on stony ground right now ( since we're being biblical ), but more often than you'd think these things come back to you later and the penny drops.

I still occasionally feel guilty that I gave nothing but trouble and endless arguments to the Deputy Headmaster at my school, whom I regarded as an idiotic relic of the Empire with quite ridiculous ideas and arguments but as the years have passed every one of the daft things he said turned out to be true. It's not so much a matter of cleverness you see, but the sometimes painful experience of learning the hard way how things really are. If that sounds patronising, I'm sorry and I understand why it would, but it's true you see.

You're a good man Royals, I enjoy our debates and you always have a thoughtful answer, maybe not always the correct one but thoughtful all the same, I can't debate faith or belief (it's impossible) and wouldn't deliberately mock it, but I will point out what I consider to be inconsistencies if I believe they're lacking or unfair ( a big one in my book), that isn't attacking the word of God, that's pointing out the mistakes of mans interpretation of it.

What a very kind thing to say. Thank you Warm - I really appreciate it.
Given my sometimes sarcastic style , it might cross your mind that I'm being funny saying that, but I'm not .
It was a lovely and heartening thing you said and reflects nothing but great credit upon you .

[m4 colin]

Jesus wasnt about to say anything contrary to Jewish religious laws The Temple people would have had him strung up in a trice and although that was the end game he had much to do before allowing that to happen

[Rossco]

If you mean homosexuality , I don't think I mentioned it either , but you asked a question which assumed that Christians " hate" gays, and I tried to explain that we don't, and put the idea into context.

I didn't assume anything, it wasn't me that mentioned gays, it was a Christian telling me how logic and God have no time for them because it says so in a book.

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

[warmleatherette]

If you mean homosexuality , I don't think I mentioned it either , but you asked a question which assumed that Christians " hate" gays, and I tried to explain that we don't, and put the idea into context.

I didn't assume anything, it wasn't me that mentioned gays, it was a Christian telling me how logic and God have no time for them because it says so in a book.

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

[Rossco]

If you mean homosexuality , I don't think I mentioned it either , but you asked a question which assumed that Christians " hate" gays, and I tried to explain that we don't, and put the idea into context.

I didn't assume anything, it wasn't me that mentioned gays, it was a Christian telling me how logic and God have no time for them because it says so in a book.

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

Deal with what. The fact that God has no time for bummers bumming each other?

Fine with me. I have no time for faggortry either tbh.

God hasn't much time for much of this world as it is. And do you know what. Fine with me as well.

So what is it I have to deal with going by you?

[warmleatherette]

If you mean homosexuality , I don't think I mentioned it either , but you asked a question which assumed that Christians " hate" gays, and I tried to explain that we don't, and put the idea into context.

I didn't assume anything, it wasn't me that mentioned gays, it was a Christian telling me how logic and God have no time for them because it says so in a book.

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

Deal with what. The fact that God has no time for bummers bumming each other?

Fine with me. I have no time for faggortry either tbh.

God hasn't much time for much of this world as it is. And do you know what. Fine with me as well.

So what is it I have to deal with going by you?

Nothing, you have it all just right.

[Rossco]

I didn't assume anything, it wasn't me that mentioned gays, it was a Christian telling me how logic and God have no time for them because it says so in a book.

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

Deal with what. The fact that God has no time for bummers bumming each other?

Fine with me. I have no time for faggortry either tbh.

God hasn't much time for much of this world as it is. And do you know what. Fine with me as well.

So what is it I have to deal with going by you?

Nothing, you have it all just right.

Indeed.

But see here is the thing. I don't care for the agenda. It goes against Gods laws.

Why do you think I am told 'To remove myself from this world'.

This world is stinking and you all seem happy to stick up for it and promote it. And do not class The Holy Bible with any other book. God forgives if they change their ways and don't have gay sex. And again I made this point. So what is it again you are trying to prove? You have proved nothing at all.

You are a non-believer. I am sorry that is the case but that is also your choice but don't expect me to go against Gods word to please you or any non-believer, and much less for an evil agenda. That isn't going to happen. But sure The Bible tells us this as well. What is to come.

The persuasion of believers under the guise of Human Rights and Political Correctness...course the human rights of believers won't matter. But then again why would they when the world follows the lies of the devil and governments do his bidding and mock Gods laws and his word. Gay marriage in church...what is that all about? Anyone who has half a clue can work that one out and the agenda behind it.

It is all very transparent and how people can't see it baffles me a bit. I find it hard to believe you are all this thick. If don't believe fair enough...well not really but free will, right. But even I could see that Gay Agenda wasn't for gays but much deeper even as a non-believer. Said as much on here.

Still none of this strike you as how the world is and how it is going. If not, why not?

Take Hillary Clinton as a good example of why this is the wrong path. She is being used by both forces in the spiritual warfare. Right there in front of you all and most still can't even see it. Crazy really.

And if you are trying in some backhanded daft way to link God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit with any other religion then what a fail this is. Because I won't buy into the gay agenda but I wouldn't hurt a gay person either. That is their free will, their lifestyle choice and between God and them. I just won't say that I accept it myself and think it is A-OK. But that is allowed. Would never harm anyone for that though. Muslims on the other hand....well now. Think you know that is a different case all together. But you see they don't follow God they follow the devil. That is the difference. If again you can't see that then I really don't know what to say to you.

[warmleatherette]

No, he didn't say that, and neither did I .
It was made clear that it is the sin rather than the sinner which is forbidden and rejected.
Each man has a choice whether to obey God once he understands things properly, and is responsible for that choice. It is also fundamental to our religion that sins can be forgiven, which is a main thing which separates the old and new testaments - Judeaism and Christianity.
God therefore has time for everyone, except perhaps those who commit the unforgivable sin of calling that which is good evil , and calling that which is evil good.
God therefore will forgive all sins upon repentance .
Those who do not yet understand the spiritual part of their nature probably cannot be held accountable, ( " each man will be judged by the light given to him").
There are many lies and deceptions prevalent in the world today, and two of them are the non-existence of a living God and the lie that those who worship him are either stupid or wicked .
To say that Christians hate homosexuals because they do not accept the practise is entirely false.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

Deal with what. The fact that God has no time for bummers bumming each other?

Fine with me. I have no time for faggortry either tbh.

God hasn't much time for much of this world as it is. And do you know what. Fine with me as well.

So what is it I have to deal with going by you?

Nothing, you have it all just right.

Indeed.

But see here is the thing. I don't care for the agenda. It goes against Gods laws.

Why do you think I am told 'To remove myself from this world'.

This world is stinking and you all seem happy to stick up for it and promote it. And do not class The Holy Bible with any other book. God forgives if they change their ways and don't have gay sex. And again I made this point. So what is it again you are trying to prove? You have proved nothing at all.

You are a non-believer. I am sorry that is the case but that is also your choice but don't expect me to go against Gods word to please you or any non-believer, and much less for an evil agenda. That isn't going to happen. But sure The Bible tells us this as well. What is to come.

The persuasion of believers under the guise of Human Rights and Political Correctness...course the human rights of believers won't matter. But then again why would they when the world follows the lies of the devil and governments do his bidding and mock Gods laws and his word. Gay marriage in church...what is that all about? Anyone who has half a clue can work that one out and the agenda behind it.

It is all very transparent and how people can't see it baffles me a bit. I find it hard to believe you are all this thick. If don't believe fair enough...well not really but free will, right. But even I could see that Gay Agenda wasn't for gays but much deeper even as a non-believer. Said as much on here.

Still none of this strike you as how the world is and how it is going. If not, why not?

Take Hillary Clinton as a good example of why this is the wrong path. She is being used by both forces in the spiritual warfare. Right there in front of you all and most still can't even see it. Crazy really.

And if you are trying in some backhanded daft way to link God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit with any other religion then what a fail this is. Because I won't buy into the gay agenda but I wouldn't hurt a gay person either. That is their free will, their lifestyle choice and between God and them. I just won't say that I accept it myself and think it is A-OK. But that is allowed. Would never harm anyone for that though. Muslims on the other hand....well now. Think you know that is a different case all together. But you see they don't follow God they follow the devil. That is the difference. If again you can't see that then I really don't know what to say to you.

I think we've proved you have an unhealthy obsession with gay sex.. And God.

[Rossco]

If you are going to quote me in BOLD then quote the full context and not the bit that suits you. Made it clear it is the sin of the act not the person. But then that would go in line with how you are picking and choosing the Bible as well. Give the full meaning or nothing at all would be my advice. Makes you look a bit stingy if nothing else dude.

Believers are believers, it is in the name. It isn't really a debate for me.

But each to their own. Tell them the truth. I have. What else can I do.

The full context is you chose to bring it up with regards to hate, deal with it.

Deal with what. The fact that God has no time for bummers bumming each other?

Fine with me. I have no time for faggortry either tbh.

God hasn't much time for much of this world as it is. And do you know what. Fine with me as well.

So what is it I have to deal with going by you?

Nothing, you have it all just right.

Indeed.

But see here is the thing. I don't care for the agenda. It goes against Gods laws.

Why do you think I am told 'To remove myself from this world'.

This world is stinking and you all seem happy to stick up for it and promote it. And do not class The Holy Bible with any other book. God forgives if they change their ways and don't have gay sex. And again I made this point. So what is it again you are trying to prove? You have proved nothing at all.

You are a non-believer. I am sorry that is the case but that is also your choice but don't expect me to go against Gods word to please you or any non-believer, and much less for an evil agenda. That isn't going to happen. But sure The Bible tells us this as well. What is to come.

The persuasion of believers under the guise of Human Rights and Political Correctness...course the human rights of believers won't matter. But then again why would they when the world follows the lies of the devil and governments do his bidding and mock Gods laws and his word. Gay marriage in church...what is that all about? Anyone who has half a clue can work that one out and the agenda behind it.

It is all very transparent and how people can't see it baffles me a bit. I find it hard to believe you are all this thick. If don't believe fair enough...well not really but free will, right. But even I could see that Gay Agenda wasn't for gays but much deeper even as a non-believer. Said as much on here.

Still none of this strike you as how the world is and how it is going. If not, why not?

Take Hillary Clinton as a good example of why this is the wrong path. She is being used by both forces in the spiritual warfare. Right there in front of you all and most still can't even see it. Crazy really.

And if you are trying in some backhanded daft way to link God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit with any other religion then what a fail this is. Because I won't buy into the gay agenda but I wouldn't hurt a gay person either. That is their free will, their lifestyle choice and between God and them. I just won't say that I accept it myself and think it is A-OK. But that is allowed. Would never harm anyone for that though. Muslims on the other hand....well now. Think you know that is a different case all together. But you see they don't follow God they follow the devil. That is the difference. If again you can't see that then I really don't know what to say to you.

I think we've proved you have an unhealthy obsession with gay sex.. And God.

And I think you failed in what you were trying to do.Gods word does not change. This world will not change it.

You have been silly here. But I think you know that.

[Roy Twing]

This debate is all very nice, but I think the title of the thread has been taken a tad too literally.
The '?' in the title is the clue.
Maybe a new thread for those of you who are interested in this stuff?

[Rantan Zero]

Fair enough. Only one God. The rest are mockers and imitators.

But don't get the whole atheist bit. The hate they have for God....where you think that baby came from.

But what hate do you speak off? If mean Gays. Then yeah, God doesn't have time for them if then practice that lifestyle and sex style but makes sense when you think about it. If all men are/where gay where does that leave the human race....so yep, not many babies about huh. Logic with God right there. Don't care if you or others don't like that or not. It is logic and that is that. Never mind feelings.

Read the New Testament. It is all pretty clear about hate and what to do with it. The old laws done away with. He who cast the first stone and all that.

That all sounds very Christian and forgiving, and people wonder why there's killing and wars...

Well now there are many reasons for that. But to blame God is just brainless. Man fights man. What is that of God. Because it is in his name doesn't make it of him.

And religion is man made. Jesus spoke about it. He wasn't very fond of it. Then again I think he knew where that road lead.

And never forget who the ruler of this world is.

The answers are all there if care to look.

Hey logic is logic to the sarcastic answer as well. If every man was gay then the human race is what.....aye. Logic! But yet no logic with God they say. Cake and eat it springs to mind here.

Out of interest was it God or religion that gives you that hate of gays?

Hate!!! Oh I forgot. That is how it is turned around now days.

You may stop with that nonsense right quick. You aren't dealing with that type of man.

It was God. And as I give you logic as to why but you choose to take the pussy P.C. route of bringing hate speech lies into it then this is were we part. I will meet people half way but I won't play that silly game. No time for lies nor bullshit.

You do know that all sin is sin in Gods eyes. You know that much right. So I am a sinner to. Is that hate speech? So let us see peoples view on this.

I'm not married but I like women. Guess what lads and ladies. By Gods word. Guess what I am doing. Yep...sinning.

But that is between God and me. At least I have the heart and balls to own my sins. Unlike the ones who hide behind hate speech. Fucking clowns.

You all sicken me at times.

Well newsflash folks. This hate speech shit is drying up as people are getting sick off it and clowns hiding behind it to tell lies and push agendas. It is being found out. Like all the rest.

Strike a light.

Seems you've touched your own nerve, it was you that brought up the hate on gays thing and then tried to justify it, embrace it, you have free will.

It is Gods word. Not hate. So stop with that auld nonsense. HATE, HATE, HATE. The war cry of the lost and owned. No where else to go so I will scream HATE. Sad really.

It is Gods word. Simple as that.

I hate no one. I just don't have time for a lot of people or things in this world. But don't hate it. There is ahuge differnce as you well know anyhow. It is a disgusting act IMO, but I like women so totally unnatural to me. But I don't hate gays. It isn't natural and that is the truth. Have give logic as to why it isn't natural. Even if you want to go down the fake lies of evolution....it still messes up with the logic. As I said. Where do the babies come from then, Strokes!! You still buying that one Leather? You didn't touch it though did you. Because well, you can't. Logic you see.

Still you cry 'HATE' all you want.

Won't work with me. I don't bend to these agendas because I see right through them and know from whom them come. And I have no fear in my heart. I trust in God. So what has this world on me.

So, what sort of "God" would even allow "gays" to be born into his world in the first place? Surely he'd have just designed humans so they were incapable of having Homosexual thoughts.

[Royal24s]

We do not know what God knows , or the Reasons for what He does.
Your words are uncannily like the arguments of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
Most of us aren't near capable of understanding Gods reasoning - obviously you believe that you are, so why don't you go and create a much better world and creatures to populate it yourself ?

By the way , you are quite wrong to suggest that the world would be better off without
" gays", as you call them. Not everybody agrees with their decisions , but they are nonetheless human beings just as valuable in the eyes of God as you or anyone else.

If you really insist upon telling us you've got better ideas than God, can't you come up with something less appalling than your opinion that He shouldn't have created homosexuals.

[The Tick]

We do not know what God knows , or the Reasons for what He does.
Your words are uncannily like the arguments of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
Most of us aren't near capable of understanding Gods reasoning - obviously you believe that you are, so why don't you go and create a much better world and creatures to populate it yourself ?

By the way , you are quite wrong to suggest that the world would be better off without
" gays", as you call them. Not everybody agrees with their decisions , but they are nonetheless human beings just as valuable in the eyes of God as you or anyone else.

If you really insist upon telling us you've got better ideas than God, can't you come up with something less appalling than your opinion that He shouldn't have created homosexuals.

That's not what Rantan Zero was saying. Read his post properly.

[Royal24s]

It's what he DID say, though. Whether he MEANT to say that might be another matter, but it's not my fault if he can't express himself .
I thank you for your tip on grasping the written word, but actually, even though English isn't my first language, I think I'm pretty much on top of it now.
Perhaps I was merely highlighting how mixed up we can get when we start trying to use sophistic logic to disprove the truth - Did that occur to you ?
Obviously not.

[The Tick]

It's what he DID say, though. Whether he MEANT to say that might be another matter, but it's not my fault if he can't express himself .
I thank you for your tip on grasping the written word, but actually, even though English isn't my first language, I think I'm pretty much on top of it now.
Perhaps I was merely highlighting how mixed up we can get when we start trying to use sophistic logic to disprove the truth - Did that occur to you ?
Obviously not.

In other words you are backtracking. Well, small graces and all that.

[Rossco]

That all sounds very Christian and forgiving, and people wonder why there's killing and wars...

Well now there are many reasons for that. But to blame God is just brainless. Man fights man. What is that of God. Because it is in his name doesn't make it of him.

And religion is man made. Jesus spoke about it. He wasn't very fond of it. Then again I think he knew where that road lead.

And never forget who the ruler of this world is.

The answers are all there if care to look.

Hey logic is logic to the sarcastic answer as well. If every man was gay then the human race is what.....aye. Logic! But yet no logic with God they say. Cake and eat it springs to mind here.

Out of interest was it God or religion that gives you that hate of gays?

Hate!!! Oh I forgot. That is how it is turned around now days.

You may stop with that nonsense right quick. You aren't dealing with that type of man.

It was God. And as I give you logic as to why but you choose to take the pussy P.C. route of bringing hate speech lies into it then this is were we part. I will meet people half way but I won't play that silly game. No time for lies nor bullshit.

You do know that all sin is sin in Gods eyes. You know that much right. So I am a sinner to. Is that hate speech? So let us see peoples view on this.

I'm not married but I like women. Guess what lads and ladies. By Gods word. Guess what I am doing. Yep...sinning.

But that is between God and me. At least I have the heart and balls to own my sins. Unlike the ones who hide behind hate speech. Fucking clowns.

You all sicken me at times.

Well newsflash folks. This hate speech shit is drying up as people are getting sick off it and clowns hiding behind it to tell lies and push agendas. It is being found out. Like all the rest.

Strike a light.

Seems you've touched your own nerve, it was you that brought up the hate on gays thing and then tried to justify it, embrace it, you have free will.

It is Gods word. Not hate. So stop with that auld nonsense. HATE, HATE, HATE. The war cry of the lost and owned. No where else to go so I will scream HATE. Sad really.

It is Gods word. Simple as that.

I hate no one. I just don't have time for a lot of people or things in this world. But don't hate it. There is ahuge differnce as you well know anyhow. It is a disgusting act IMO, but I like women so totally unnatural to me. But I don't hate gays. It isn't natural and that is the truth. Have give logic as to why it isn't natural. Even if you want to go down the fake lies of evolution....it still messes up with the logic. As I said. Where do the babies come from then, Strokes!! You still buying that one Leather? You didn't touch it though did you. Because well, you can't. Logic you see.

Still you cry 'HATE' all you want.

Won't work with me. I don't bend to these agendas because I see right through them and know from whom them come. And I have no fear in my heart. I trust in God. So what has this world on me.

So, what sort of "God" would even allow "gays" to be born into his world in the first place? Surely he'd have just designed humans so they were incapable of having Homosexual thoughts.

Better yet. Explain bisexuals to me. If you can then we can take it from there.

IMO. Free will and choice would be my guess. People choose what they like then go with it. Because the bisexual bit proves that much. Well to me it does anyhow. What are they then. Just greedy folk? Wee bit of penis couple days a week and fanny the rest...what is that all about then? That is free choice isn't it?

As to why some men are gay. Haven't a clue. I don't know if God made them that way, or did he. Or did they choose that themselves? I don't know why. Ask God Rantan. Why you asking me for?

All I know is that God said a man having sex with another man is a sin in Gods eyes.

But chin up dude, because as I have said. I am not married and I like women. And guess what again...that is a sin as well in Gods eyes. And all sin is measured equal.

I do try not to whore about these days though like I did before. Soul ties and all that. Look into that. Very interesting stuff if nothing else.

Also let me make it clear. God has great love and I mean huge, flet like my wee heart would explode. Not joking. I have felt it first hand. Not like anything of this world. So if we repent and turn away from sin he is forgiving. We will still sin as we are human. Hard not to. But knowing it is a sin and accepting it as such and try to better ourselves and spirit to move away from whatever sin it is, that is what it is about. Or just have a huge human ego and that silly human pride and say. Well if Gods word doesn't suit my lifestyle then well I have no time for him or it is nonsense. If that is the case then don't cry like a bitch with a skimmed knee about it. That is free will in motion right there.

How I see it anyhow. If wrong so be. I will stand before him and when I do all I can do is explain how I saw it and read it. What else can I do but that. And thank him off course. Whatever way it goes.

[Royal24s]

It's what he DID say, though. Whether he MEANT to say that might be another matter, but it's not my fault if he can't express himself .
I thank you for your tip on grasping the written word, but actually, even though English isn't my first language, I think I'm pretty much on top of it now.
Perhaps I was merely highlighting how mixed up we can get when we start trying to use sophistic logic to disprove the truth - Did that occur to you ?
Obviously not.

In other words you are backtracking. Well, small graces and all that.

No, in other words , you're not keeping up.

[The Tick]

It's what he DID say, though. Whether he MEANT to say that might be another matter, but it's not my fault if he can't express himself .
I thank you for your tip on grasping the written word, but actually, even though English isn't my first language, I think I'm pretty much on top of it now.
Perhaps I was merely highlighting how mixed up we can get when we start trying to use sophistic logic to disprove the truth - Did that occur to you ?
Obviously not.

In other words you are backtracking. Well, small graces and all that.

No, in other words , you're not keeping up.

Yes you are backtracking, and poorly trying to hide it behind your usual verbal diarrhoea.

[Rantan Zero]

As to why some men are gay. Haven't a clue. I don't know if God made them that way, or did he. Or did they choose that themselves? I don't know why. Ask God Rantan. Why you asking me for?
.

Well it would be rather hard for me to ask God anything since he isn't real. I still wouldn't follow him even if he was. Why would anyone want to follow someone as nasty as him? He has a childish temper tantrum when things are not going his way and decides to wipe out nearly all of the human race with a flood and uses fear to intimidate people.

[Royal24s]

As to why some men are gay. Haven't a clue. I don't know if God made them that way, or did he. Or did they choose that themselves? I don't know why. Ask God Rantan. Why you asking me for?
.

Well it would be rather hard for me to ask God anything since he isn't real. I still wouldn't follow him even if he was. Why would anyone want to follow someone as nasty as him? He has a childish temper tantrum when things are not going his way and decides to wipe out nearly all of the human race with a flood and uses fear to intimidate people.

Logic problem here Rantan. If He doesn't exist, how can He be nasty , have a temper etc ?

I hesitate to say this because it might disillusion the tick, but Bugs Bunny doesn't really exist, and therefore I don't spend any time evaluating his personality.

That's the problem with non believers you see. They don't apply logic.