talkFORUM Archive

Zambo wrote:

Royal24s wrote:I just explained it to you. That wasn't an off the cuff personal assessment you know, it was a précis of the proper definitions. I honestly thought it would be helpful.

It wasn't, just a load of mumbo jumbo. Then again, I'm just a mere pleb against the holder of the tablets of stone, so that is probably why I labelled it that.

ps I think I'll stick with my description thanks.

How very rude . The reason that I was able to explain it was in fact that I've bothered to study the subject rather than making it up. It's a fairly obscure question, but one which did happen to come up in some detail during one of my courses and which I've read a lot about before being able to offer a summing up of general learned opinion upon it.
You see, it's nothing to do with tablets of stone, but rather taking the trouble,effort and time to study and qualify before pontificating upon a subject.
Because I'm a bit old, I've had the time and good fortune to do that quite a lot. I don't actually talk crap about things until I've spent time on them, and I'm immensely grateful to those who took the trouble to help me understand complex issues.
If you prefer to stick with your own version which you have simply made up yourself, that is entirely your own choice, but in fact THAT is the true nature of unjustified confidence in your opinions rather than mine. It will only make you very angry and frustrated because your ill founded beliefs wont work.
You probably won't discover the square root of -1 if you couldn't be bothered to learn your times tables .
You referred to yourself as a " pleb". I didn't say that, but we all start in the same place until we start the process if learning and developing clarity of thought through study and experience. Like anyone else , you have the potential to do this, but it's your choice.

There's no point really in saying this because it's clear to me that you can't learn anything from me or anyone else, but I admit to my discredit that I felt I wanted to say it because I don't see why I should have to accept a lecture from, or be insulted by you without response.

We nearly got a conversation going about the difference between cults & religions. Never mind. Back to Royals talking about himself.

Whatever Royals, but I'm getting as tired of reading one-eyed crap from the right as much as I am from from the left, and despite what you say, your views come from one flank in the main. As for studying, well anyone can do that, but it's what they learn from it and how they interpret it that counts. Not everyone does that the same, and yours isn't always correct. You appear to be very stuck in your ways, inflexible and one eyed, and not prepared to consider anyone else's viewpoint. That's both ignorant and boring.

On this particular subject, I have made up nothing, but to say that there is no difference between a cult and religion is ridiculous imo

A couple of points for you to, maybe chew over, before you discount it because you are always right.

1. Does a religion, let's take Christianity, use psychological coercion to recruit/indoctrinate to retain members?

2. Does it form an elitist society?

3. Have all Christians been brainwashed?

4. Does Justin Welby claim to have had a sexual relationship with a prophetess claiming that God had chosen him to father a child with her, who would be the Chosen One.

ffs wake up at the back and open up your mind. From your posts, it appears to be padlocked down with a load of one sided claptrap.

Ralph wrote:We nearly got a conversation going about the difference between cults & religions. Never mind. Back to Royals talking about himself.

Cults rarely last more than a decade. Religions last more than a century. I wonder if Scientology will go the distance .

AlcoholBrazil wrote:

Ralph wrote:We nearly got a conversation going about the difference between cults & religions. Never mind. Back to Royals talking about himself.

Cults rarely last more than a decade. Religions last more than a century. I wonder if Scientology will go the distance .

So, we have membership numbers & longevity as the main difference, - makes sense to me.
A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Roy Twing wrote:

AlcoholBrazil wrote:

Ralph wrote:We nearly got a conversation going about the difference between cults & religions. Never mind. Back to Royals talking about himself.

Cults rarely last more than a decade. Religions last more than a century. I wonder if Scientology will go the distance .

So, we have membership numbers & longevity as the main difference, - makes sense to me.
A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Except that it's wrong, but ......

[quote="Zambo"]Whatever Royals, but I'm getting as tired of reading one-eyed crap from the right as much as I am from from the left, and despite what you say, your views come from one flank in the main. As for studying, well anyone can do that, but it's what they learn from it and how they interpret it that counts. Not everyone does that the same, and yours isn't always correct. You appear to be very stuck in your ways, inflexible and one eyed, and not prepared to consider anyone else's viewpoint. That's both ignorant and boring.

On this particular subject, I have made up nothing, but to say that there is no difference between a cult and religion is ridiculous imo

A couple of points for you to, maybe chew over, before you discount it because you are always right.

1. Does a religion, let's take Christianity, use psychological coercion to recruit/indoctrinate to retain members?

2. Does it form an elitist society?

3. Have all Christians been brainwashed?

4. Does Justin Welby claim to have had a sexual relationship with a prophetess claiming that God had chosen him to father a child with her, who would be the Chosen One.

Oh dear me !
Ignoring the rest, I'll answer your questions .

1. Matter of opinion.

2. It might or it might not. To some extent it requires a hierarchy, but Christianity often exists as a minority belief, so it doesn't usually form society.

3. No, because if you knew precisely what brainwashing is, then you would know it can't apply. The process of brainwashing requires an original set of beliefs to be dislodged first, then replaced with another. Therefore it can't apply to people brought up in a belief.

4. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't trust the man, and I'm not responsible for or connected with him because he says he's a Christian.


As for your views about my political position, please tell me what you think the the "Right" is. You could either look it up or have a nice chat with Ralph and decide what you THINK it is.
Did you know that in football , you can't be offside if you've got your fingers crossed ?
That's what I've worked out anyway .

Roy Twing wrote: A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Name cults that are now religions

If we are saying multiculturalism is the same thing minus a few bits and bolts as a religion, I disagree.

I've seen Muslims from Somalia take over whole areas of Birmingham from the 'traditional' Muslims from say Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Was it because Sparkbrook was say on huge oil field or particullaly picturesque?

No, it was the control of drugs in the City.

Like it or lump it, Britain is a church of England based country. I happen to think religion in whatever form has no place in a modern society, I especially feel that Islam, (not people) has nothing to benefit or enrich Britain; I do think people from the World have lots to offer Britain and improve us.

In 2016 everybody that lives in Britain, regardless of colour or Country of birth, needs to accept the rules and the silly shit we do, as what you do; we're probably wrong, but, it's not your place or your God's place to say otherwise.

I have no problem with different colours, views and perspectives, but that ain't the issue.

It is what it is.

Royal24s wrote:

Zambo wrote:Whatever Royals, but I'm getting as tired of reading one-eyed crap from the right as much as I am from from the left, and despite what you say, your views come from one flank in the main. As for studying, well anyone can do that, but it's what they learn from it and how they interpret it that counts. Not everyone does that the same, and yours isn't always correct. You appear to be very stuck in your ways, inflexible and one eyed, and not prepared to consider anyone else's viewpoint. That's both ignorant and boring.

On this particular subject, I have made up nothing, but to say that there is no difference between a cult and religion is ridiculous imo

A couple of points for you to, maybe chew over, before you discount it because you are always right.

1. Does a religion, let's take Christianity, use psychological coercion to recruit/indoctrinate to retain members?

2. Does it form an elitist society?

3. Have all Christians been brainwashed?

4. Does Justin Welby claim to have had a sexual relationship with a prophetess claiming that God had chosen him to father a child with her, who would be the Chosen One.

Oh dear me !
Ignoring the rest, I'll answer your questions .

1. Matter of opinion.

2. It might or it might not. To some extent it requires a hierarchy, but Christianity often exists as a minority belief, so it doesn't usually form society.

3. No, because if you knew precisely what brainwashing is, then you would know it can't apply. The process of brainwashing requires an original set of beliefs to be dislodged first, then replaced with another. Therefore it can't apply to people brought up in a belief.

4. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't trust the man, and I'm not responsible for or connected with him because he says he's a Christian.


As for your views about my political position, please tell me what you think the the "Right" is. You could either look it up or have a nice chat with Ralph and decide what you THINK it is.
Did you know that in football , you can't be offside if you've got your fingers crossed ?
That's what I've worked out anyway .

Me and you are done. I'll play along for a while with patronising head up their arse self-important lecturers, but it's pointless discussing or debating anything with anyone who looks down their nose at those who don't share the same opinion as they do.

Zambo wrote:

Roy Twing wrote: A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Name cults that are now religions

Didn't someone on here just say that the Romans regarded christianity as a cult initially?

Fug1 wrote:If we are saying multiculturalism is the same thing minus a few bits and bolts as a religion, I disagree.

I've seen Muslims from Somalia take over whole areas of Birmingham from the 'traditional' Muslims from say Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Was it because Sparkbrook was say on huge oil field or particullaly picturesque?

No, it was the control of drugs in the City.

Like it or lump it, Britain is a church of England based country. I happen to think religion in whatever form has no place in a modern society, I especially feel that Islam, (not people) has nothing to benefit or enrich Britain; I do think people from the World have lots to offer Britain and improve us.

In 2016 everybody that lives in Britain, regardless of colour or Country of birth, needs to accept the rules and the silly shit we do, as what you do; we're probably wrong, but, it's not your place or your God's place to say otherwise.

I have no problem with different colours, views and perspectives, but that ain't the issue.

It is what it is.

Religion and culture are not necessarily the same thing, but they are very closely intertwined, and the more backward the culture, the more that religion has an influence.

Roy Twing wrote:

Zambo wrote:

Roy Twing wrote: A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Name cults that are now religions

Didn't someone on here just say that the Romans regarded christianity as a cult initially?

The Romans in the name of their Gods, (the planets to this day are named after the Roman Gods) did indeed crucify the King of the Jews, later to be known as Jesus and the founder of the Christian faith.

Agree Roy that religion and culture don't go hand in hand, but I disagree on the reliance part, I don't think you can call something backwards because it differs; the way I look at it is it's used to press home something harder on people that maybe hardet to control and might disagree.

Fug1 wrote:Agree Roy that religion and culture don't go hand in hand, but I disagree on the reliance part, I don't think you can call something backwards because it differs; the way I look at it is it's used to press home something harder on people that maybe hardet to control and might disagree.

I thought about using 'uneducated' instead of backward, but I'll stick with my choice.
For the sake of not wishing to overly offend those who 'have religion' on here, I won't elaborate further.

Roy Twing wrote:

Zambo wrote:

Roy Twing wrote: A cult becomes a religion is it hangs around long enough and attracts sufficient acolytes along the way.

Name cults that are now religions

Didn't someone on here just say that the Romans regarded christianity as a cult initially?

If you go back far enough to when any religion started, you can find some people who regarded it as a socially deviant or novel belief and practice. I thought we were talking about modern times.

I think that the descriptions and examples I have given are reasonable as to what the difference is between a cult and a religion. You disagree, particular discussion over.

Thing is Roy, most people say exactly the same thing, just different words strung together to say it.

Religious folk may be offended by what we say, I'm sure it's not your intention to offend people and it isnt mine, but the option definately isn't to say nothing at all.

I know the impact of such stories as these is long since faded, but I still find them extremely depressing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -eyes.html

All faith schools should be banned. If you want to pray do it before or after school, and leave the classroom for learning what is important.

Zambo wrote:All faith schools should be banned. If you want to pray do it before or after school, and leave the classroom for learning what is important.

I agree to a point.
There should be no school which teaches that the existence of some form of deity is fact, but by and large, 'faith schools' have co-existed quite uneventfully with the greater secular educational world, until of course, along came a whole new ball game.

Zambo wrote:All faith schools should be banned. If you want to pray do it before or after school, and leave the classroom for learning what is important.

I can't see a problem with a school that only recognises one faith, even teaches by and large around that faith as the focal point of all subsequent learning, ( for example in Britain it should be CofE) if that is the only faith available in a Country who is passionate about their religion.

But we have many faiths, kids surely need to find out what, and who they are without pressure of the old cunts demanding what these kids will be as adults.

If these guys are that confident about their religion then surely the kids will find it eventually, naturally. In the meantime, it just keeps some in the red corner and some in the blue corner.

This one could go on a multitude of threads (bbc bias; another typical crime; immigration etc) but this is as good as any.

Figures out today show violent crime figures massively increased. Not much more needs saying really.

I'm surprised no-one has bothered to mention the Casey report today, telling us what we all already knew, that the country has become less cohesive/integrated and unsurprisingly singling out muslims.
.

Roy Twing wrote:I'm surprised no-one has bothered to mention the Casey report today, telling us what we all already knew, that the country has become less cohesive/integrated and unsurprisingly singling out muslims.
.

I'm just catching up with a lot of news Royston including this. First think that strikes me with this report is it's authored a bunch of head in the sand denialists suddenly being forced into the real world. No one in one of these government 'observer positions' on social affairs was ever chosen from,.. well even the right of centre unless they were of an ethnic background which gave them licence to tell the truth without being called a racist (eg Trevor Phillips). What we have now is another case of the bleedin obvious only being 'officially' noted once one of these liberal groups has made a U-turn. No mention of the enormous clamour from people not in this bracket who were pointing it out for years but now it's official. As with all things official it wasn't the truth before some quango typed body declared it so and just like magic , as soon as they say so- it is.

I've always said the left would do this when there was nowhere else to run. They have declared themselves in total charge of the official version of reality even when they haven't got the slightest clue and work on nothing but wishful thinking.

m4rkb wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:I'm surprised no-one has bothered to mention the Casey report today, telling us what we all already knew, that the country has become less cohesive/integrated and unsurprisingly singling out muslims.
.

I'm just catching up with a lot of news Royston including this. First think that strikes me with this report is it's authored a bunch of head in the sand denialists suddenly being forced into the real world. No one in one of these government 'observer positions' on social affairs was ever chosen from,.. well even the right of centre unless they were of an ethnic background which gave them licence to tell the truth without being called a racist (eg Trevor Phillips). What we have now is another case of the bleedin obvious only being 'officially' noted once one of these liberal groups has made a U-turn. No mention of the enormous clamour from people not in this bracket who were pointing it out for years but now it's official. As with all things official it wasn't the truth before some quango typed body declared it so and just like magic , as soon as they say so- it is.

I've always said the left would do this when there was nowhere else to run. They have declared themselves in total charge of the official version of reality even when they haven't got the slightest clue and work on nothing but wishful thinking.

The lefty media isn't quite ready to roll over just yet, - from the little I could stomach of the guardian, they seem to be mainly blaming the government for not doing enough to 'help' the poor misunderstood muslims integrate, and also the report author for singling out muslims.