Nhs

[Steve Hunt]

[warmleatherette]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

Good points Hillman - the seatbelt one is particularly tricky.

At the moment we are in the fortunate position of still being able to treat the woman, in future though, we simply wont be able to afford to treat everyone, and determining whether the reason they are in hospital was preventable will become part of the triage procedure.

As for your mobile station, at first glance it is a truly excelllent idea, however I do worry that loads of pissheads will wander in trying to cop a feel of a nurse and kick off with the male staff.

Perhaps a station which has adequate police guarding it would be an option but the extra cost would need to be met, possibly by the people attending, or imposing a levy on the bars that are selling them the booze in the first place. But on the whole I think it's a genius idea, it would keep A&E clear for people with real emergencies on the weekend instead of having it rammed with people who need treatment for cuts and bruises.

Nice one, I genuinely think it's a fucking fantastic idea that should at least be trialed in one major town.

There is a lot you say in two posts, some is based on the past, a lot I agree with, no way should the NHS be resposnible for giving you body enhancements as it is the coolest thing of the season, I mean the guy who tried to look like Joey Essex, is a pathetic piss take and waste of money.

I can't agree with your comments on drunks, but the last one on cuts and bruises, no way should that involve going to A&E, if you have broken bones or twisted parts, yes.

Being drunk is self inflicted.

It differs from a sports injury where people are attempting to keep themselves healthy.

If you end up in A&E because you are drunk, if you weren't drunk, it wouldn't have happened, so you are taking money from taxpayers because of your actions in the same way as if you'd caused criminal damage to a public building.

The NHS is there to treat the sick, not the stupid.

40/50 year old men "playing football" and getting injured is worse than being drunk, at least when drunk you have a reason for being "stupid".

[Zambo]

With almost half the doctors not even aware that they are supposed to charge foreigners what chance of you got. They should stop pouring money in until they collect some of this shit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... rists.html

[Royal24s]

Close it and start again. I don't usually watch hospital news but I saw a poor British kid on the bbc news last night who needed a drug which the bastards refuse to pay for .
I suggest that we stop all sex changes and convenience abortions - particularly for foreigners - till they find the money to provide proper medication for kids who are actually ill through no fault or choice of their own .
Either that or stop taking our taxes and let people take out their own health insurance.
In the background of the shot in that story I saw about a dozen fat nursing assistants and cleaners sitting on their arses gossiping just as you see if you visit an NHS hospital .
Personally I'd find something productive for them to do if I was employing them , and so would any employer who was spending their own money instead of ours.

[Fug1]

I'm not sure why everybody thinks the NHS is free.

British taxpayers fund it, which I'm guessing means all of us.

Mis-management riddles the service at administration and management levels, spending millions on IT that simply doesn't work as one example.

The whole system of funding in this country is fucked, not just the NHS, I know how I would deal with the problems in this country but that's another story.

[m4 colin]

Bad You might come out of hospital wore than you went in!
Bad My own GP said of our local hospital "You want to stay away from that place"

Good two mates with different cancers in opped successfully and out again in
two weeks
I doubt ordinary folk without bundles of money would do as well in a privatized
system
Also I wasnt allowed to opt out for most of my life what about the thousands of pounds people like me already paid in ?

Yes billions are wasted on consultants (Managerial & financial)
Frivolous operations and procedures and health tourism all that should be stopped cold

And getting rid of Matron was a huge blunder, like taking the RSM out of an Army regiment. Bring her back Those old dragons and the sisters under them
took no shit and made hospitals efficient

[Zambo]

Local news, local hospital, and not for the first time. 7 hour wait in one of the ambulances queued up at A&E with violent stomach pains. That is before you get on a trolley. Winter will put the NHS in total chaos, which includes GP surgeries who have lost loads of staff. My surgery has not recruited one single medical worker in 18 months. In that time 3 doctors and several nurses have left. It has become unsustainable.

[caveman]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

[Zambo]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

I agree with that. Self inflicted illness you should pay for treatment. People who don't turn up for appointments should be fined and then struck off. Time to sort the irresponsible out, because again the responsible are suffering. No one has the backbone to do it though.

[warmleatherette]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

If you smoke and get lung cancer (or anything smoking related) you've already paid, smoking related diseases costs the NHS between 3 and 6 billion a year whilst the revenue on tax gives 12 billion, thank you smokers.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoki ... -treasury/

[Ralph]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

I agree with that. Self inflicted illness you should pay for treatment. People who don't turn up for appointments should be fined and then struck off. Time to sort the irresponsible out, because again the responsible are suffering. No one has the backbone to do it though.

I got struck off my consultants list for missing 6 appointments in 6 weeks. Wouldn't mind but I was only meant to see him once a year. Somebody at the hospital had cocked up & it was left to me to sort it out. I know for a fact it's still on my record that I missed those appointments.

[paolo]

I wonder if the NHS would be better off financially if it cared for brits and recovered all monies owed

[Zambo]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

I agree with that. Self inflicted illness you should pay for treatment. People who don't turn up for appointments should be fined and then struck off. Time to sort the irresponsible out, because again the responsible are suffering. No one has the backbone to do it though.

I got struck off my consultants list for missing 6 appointments in 6 weeks. Wouldn't mind but I was only meant to see him once a year. Somebody at the hospital had cocked up & it was left to me to sort it out. I know for a fact it's still on my record that I missed those appointments.

If patients are struck off due to NHS incompetence, then there should be an accountability procedure. Problem is that in so many public sector organisations, there is no accountability and you can screw up until your heart's content without any consequences.

As for your record, I would keep pushing until it is corrected.

[Ralph]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

I agree with that. Self inflicted illness you should pay for treatment. People who don't turn up for appointments should be fined and then struck off. Time to sort the irresponsible out, because again the responsible are suffering. No one has the backbone to do it though.

I got struck off my consultants list for missing 6 appointments in 6 weeks. Wouldn't mind but I was only meant to see him once a year. Somebody at the hospital had cocked up & it was left to me to sort it out. I know for a fact it's still on my record that I missed those appointments.

If patients are struck off due to NHS incompetence, then there should be an accountability procedure. Problem is that in so many public sector organisations, there is no accountability and you can screw up until your heart's content without any consequences.

As for your record, I would keep pushing until it is corrected.

I got back on his list with one phone call to my GP. Point is, if there was system of fines they'd have been demanding money off me for those missed appointments.

[Zambo]

I got back on his list with one phone call to my GP. Point is, if there was system of fines they'd have been demanding money off me for those missed appointments.

They may have been demanding, but you would not have paid. In the end their records would have been corrected.

There has to be a system whereby people who screw up get penalised, otherwise they will just carry on screwing up.

[deisegirl]

If your lifestyle choice causes you to need NHS support for a condition that it a direct result of your lifestyle you should pay.

If you smoke and get lung cancer you pay for treatment.
If you are obese and have a heart attack you pay for treatment.
Etc.. etc..
If you go to your gp and ignore his/her advice and end up needing treatment then u pay for it.

If you smoke and get lung cancer (or anything smoking related) you've already paid, smoking related diseases costs the NHS between 3 and 6 billion a year whilst the revenue on tax gives 12 billion, thank you smokers.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoki ... -treasury/

I've come around to that way of thinking myself... in the last Budget here another 50c went on cigarettes so it's now over ten euro for the first time. They are an easy target really and long may it last. Most of them will grumble about the price but then hey ho its off to the shops they go. KERCHING!

Nearly half the population here has private health insurance too - I had to do research on this for a work project - so it's not as if everyone with smoking related cancer is going to be making full use of public health services.

[Zambo]

There is a whole lot of other stuff hiding behind this 'smokers pay more than they take out' slant. Those who think that they do should do a bit of research.

[Royal24s]

You could say almost any illness springs from lifestyle choices, and that's no reason not to treat ill people in a civilised society .
What do we say next ? No treatment for people injured whilst voluntarily playing football, people who chose to drive cars and had a crash. I know what we won't be saying - that people who chose a lifestyle which resulted in aids should have their treatment withheld .

Once again, it's only doing things the left don't approve of people doing which can be seen as a reason to let them suffer and die.

This is one of the reasons why the state shouldn't have control of the means to receive medicine.

[warmleatherette]

There is a whole lot of other stuff hiding behind this 'smokers pay more than they take out' slant. Those who think that they do should do a bit of research.

By a bit of "research" do you mean finding an article that confirms your bias?

The facts are there for all to see, smokers pay in nearly twice as much as they take out of the NHS, that is what this thread is about, if you want to start a thread about the imaginary "loss of productivity" etc then feel free to start one, meanwhile I'd be thanking the smokers for massive contribution to our health system, thanks smokers.

[Hillman avenger]

I wonder if the NHS would be better off financially if it cared for brits and recovered all monies owed

Not much.

The systems required to identify bill-and collect- payment from foreigners could well cancel any benefit but simply make A and E departments even more overworked,

The financial problems of the NHS are on a much bigger scale.

And even if you threw billions at it, the problem is resources..and they take time to come through. Brexit will make this worse.

[Zambo]

There is a whole lot of other stuff hiding behind this 'smokers pay more than they take out' slant. Those who think that they do should do a bit of research.

By a bit of "research" do you mean finding an article that confirms your bias?

The facts are there for all to see, smokers pay in nearly twice as much as they take out of the NHS, that is what this thread is about, if you want to start a thread about the imaginary "loss of productivity" etc then feel free to start one, meanwhile I'd be thanking the smokers for massive contribution to our health system, thanks smokers.

Don't call me bias warmo without any grounds. Are you smoker? I could take a guess. Do you think that because you pay tax on ciggies you are entitled to take up the beds of patients who have become ill through no fault of their own.

[Zambo]

You could say almost any illness springs from lifestyle choices, and that's no reason not to treat ill people in a civilised society .
What do we say next ? No treatment for people injured whilst voluntarily playing football, people who chose to drive cars and had a crash. I know what we won't be saying - that people who chose a lifestyle which resulted in aids should have their treatment withheld .

Once again, it's only doing things the left don't approve of people doing which can be seen as a reason to let them suffer and die.

This is one of the reasons why the state shouldn't have control of the means to receive medicine.

No you couldn't say that any illness is self inflicted. For a start people get cancer who have never smoked and have led a healthy lifestyle. Moreover the sport example is rather silly. Smokers are sitting on their arses with a coffin nail in their mouths, whilst participating in sport is a lifestyle benefit.

How many people have been killed playing football v killed by smoking. Smoking takes up NHS resources that cannot be afforded.

[Ralph]

I wonder if the NHS would be better off financially if it cared for brits and recovered all monies owed

Not much.

The systems required to identify bill-and collect- payment from foreigners could well cancel any benefit but simply make A and E departments even more overworked,

The financial problems of the NHS are on a much bigger scale.

And even if you threw billions at it, the problem is resources..and they take time to come through. Brexit will make this worse.

I'd guess that's the reason it isn't already being done - it would cost more to setup the infrastructure to collect/chase people for the money than it's worth.

[Zambo]

In the US if you are involved in a car accident they won't scrape you off the road until you can show that you can pay for treatment. I read that somewhere but can't think where.

We are pathtic in this country.

[Royal24s]

I read that a lot of places but it's not true. It's a criminal offence in the USA to refuse emergency treatment to anyone, whether they can pay or not .