Nhs

[theleader82]

What's so special about the NHS? I'm sick of mps arguing over this so called wonderful institution. Every developed country in the world has their own heath service, and most function better than ours. I'm sick of pensioners being left in corridors for days while health tourists are pushed to the front of the queue. I'm sick of people who have paid into the system all their lives being denied cancer medicines,while we spend billions on foreign aid. Britain is the sick man of Europe, and scotland the most unhealthy in the developed world.

[shabbado]

[andyrich666]

I was listening last night to the ramblings of one Nick Abbot on LBC, mainly about the NHS but when 2 MIkes come on I switched over, again it comes up with this business of Drunk people causing the problems and they should pay for treatment.

I am against this and I do not understand how and why they should pay, not only that but how they define it, where is the cut off point, how will it be implemented, I really wanted to get on the show but I could not be arsed to get out of bed, 45 mins went on without a call but in that time 5 time the number was read out, I am not sure if they had problems with communications, I think I might go back to the 'sports bar' Ill give it another chance, he did the job he got me to sleep, missed the 'two mikes'

[Hillman avenger]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

[andyrich666]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

You answer it how I would, to go to extreme examples, if someone popped a load of pills they would be treated without cost, if they mixed alcohol, I guess the same, if they are still in the same mindset but just drunk a bottle of Vodka, without the pills, should they be charged no.....

If you slip over in ice you could do it drunk or sober. You could trip anywhere, There are so many variables, when it comes down to it, what is self inflicted ?

Fights, can be caused drunk or sober, I am not in agreement with it at all.

I am often drunk but for over 15 years, I never been to hospital for being drunk.

[therealHJ]

Privately run drunk-tanks, police drop you off and you pay to leave when you are sober

Simples

[andyrich666]

Privately run drunk-tanks, police drop you off and you pay to leave when you are sober

Simples

You not allowed to be drunk ?, WTF ???

[therealHJ]

Privately run drunk-tanks, police drop you off and you pay to leave when you are sober

Simples

You not allowed to be drunk ?, WTF ???

Where did I say that?

[andyrich666]

Privately run drunk-tanks, police drop you off and you pay to leave when you are sober

Simples

You not allowed to be drunk ?, WTF ???

Where did I say that?

Why do you need drunk tanks, what are they for ? Why you need to pay to get out of them.

[reg thorpe]

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

They have something similar in Cardiff, an alcohol treatment centre that works very well apparently.

[Hillman avenger]

What's so special about the NHS?
Actually, a lot. Reckoned to be the most efficient national health system in the world, for all it could be improved, given the amount we spend on it. The US spends 16% OF GDP on healthcare but has 20 million people still not covered, and a lower age expectancy. BTW when Osborne talks about limiting spending to 35% OF GDP, remember that includes health in our system. When "happiness" factors are collected across countries, the peace of mind the NHS creates for most people is always cited as a significant reason for living here. Yes, you may be frustrated at waiting times for electives or access to consultants, or A and E delays for non-critical care. But it remains the case that critical care is nearly always superb.

I'm sick of mps arguing over this so called wonderful institution. Every developed country in the world has their own heath service, and most function better than ours.

See above. Not the case. In absolute terms, the German, French, Scandinavian and Dutch may beat it, but at substantially greater expense. Personally, I'd be glad to pay as much as they do.

I'm sick of pensioners being left in corridors for days while health tourists are pushed to the front of the queue.

I don't like pensioners being treated like that either, but it doesn't happen that often. As far as "health tourists" are concerned, (a) give us evidence of them being "pushed to the front of the queue" and (b) has anyone on this forum ever encountered one ? Let's see some data because my impression is that it is massively overstated.

I'm sick of people who have paid into the system all their lives being denied cancer medicines

People ARE NOT denied cancer medicines, as anyone suffering will tell you. But they don't have access to drugs which are reckoned to be poor value for money. I am sure that must be a terrible experience, but if you think that does not happen in any other system, think again. In the US those decisions are made in insurance companies rather than in hospitals.

while we spend billions on foreign aid. Britain is the sick man of Europe

What does that mean? Only last week we were told that was France,blah blah.

, and scotland the most unhealthy in the developed world.

[andyrich666]

Cuba has far limited resources than the UK but has what is said to be the 2nd best National Health service in the World.

A major problem in the UK is money wasteage

[Chris]

What's so special about the NHS?

Free at the point of use and it saves lives.

[Hillman avenger]

Cuba has far limited resources than the UK but has what is said to be the 2nd best National Health service in the World.

A major problem in the UK is money wasteage

Fair enough. It depends on what you compare it to, and the fact that pre-Castro they had nothing. Do you know what % of GDP is spent on it?

I'm sure there is wastage in the NHS, as there is in any big organisation, and it is by a long way our biggest. But there is no way a cost-saving programme will get near the kind of targets this government wants, and in the mean time it is pouring away money on consultants and processes so as to be "competitive" which is a nonsense idea in healthcare.

This is what will happen. Private sector will cherry pick the routine work- hips, cataracts, and the rest, which can be treated predictably and therefore at profit. NHS hospitals will be left with complex, acute and A and E but with far less money to run them. Then the game will be to point at them and say they are "inefficient" compared to the private operators.

It's hard to believe how little public outrage there is about what is going on. In vox pops now people go on about immigration, albeit without facts and figures, and yet this will have far more effect on most people.

[andyrich666]

Fair enough. It depends on what you compare it to, and the fact that pre-Castro they had nothing. Do you know what % of GDP is spent on it?

What I would compare it to is a private company similar to that of Ryanair ! It just would not happen.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

I was listening last night to the ramblings of one Nick Abbot on LBC, mainly about the NHS but when 2 MIkes come on I switched over, again it comes up with this business of Drunk people causing the problems and they should pay for treatment.

I am against this and I do not understand how and why they should pay, not only that but how they define it, where is the cut off point, how will it be implemented, I really wanted to get on the show but I could not be arsed to get out of bed, 45 mins went on without a call but in that time 5 time the number was read out, I am not sure if they had problems with communications, I think I might go back to the 'sports bar' Ill give it another chance, he did the job he got me to sleep, missed the 'two mikes'

The NHS was there to help people out who could not afford a doctor, before the NHS if you couldn't afford a doctor you had to deal with it yourself, whether that was problems giving birth, an industrial injury disease - you name it.

It was a noble undertaking that the government of the day undertook.

Today, it is now treated as a convenience store. People no longer look on it as something they pay into in the hope they never have to use it, but as a christmas club that they pay into and demand to make use of for the most minor of things, ask any GP how many of their patients are in the waiting room suffering from "flu" - when they know that they cant possibly have flu, because if they did, there is no way they could drag their arse to the doctor.

Can't have a baby? get the taxpayer to pay for IVF - despite the fact it isn't a medical condition.

Got jug ears or small tits, get cosmetic surgery paid for by the tax payer instead of just becoming a bit stronger in character and dealing with what you were given and thanking your lucky stars that's all you've got "wrong" with you.

Go out and get plastered - fuck it, the tax payer will pick up the bill - funily enough, anything else you do whilst pissed, criminal damagae, driving, rape, GBH - you will be held fully accountable for - so yes, you should pay for your NHS treatment.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

Good points Hillman - the seatbelt one is particularly tricky.

At the moment we are in the fortunate position of still being able to treat the woman, in future though, we simply wont be able to afford to treat everyone, and determining whether the reason they are in hospital was preventable will become part of the triage procedure.

As for your mobile station, at first glance it is a truly excelllent idea, however I do worry that loads of pissheads will wander in trying to cop a feel of a nurse and kick off with the male staff.

Perhaps a station which has adequate police guarding it would be an option but the extra cost would need to be met, possibly by the people attending, or imposing a levy on the bars that are selling them the booze in the first place. But on the whole I think it's a genius idea, it would keep A&E clear for people with real emergencies on the weekend instead of having it rammed with people who need treatment for cuts and bruises.

Nice one, I genuinely think it's a fucking fantastic idea that should at least be trialed in one major town.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Privately run drunk-tanks, police drop you off and you pay to leave when you are sober

Simples

You not allowed to be drunk ?, WTF ???

You're not allowed to be drunk and disorderly, that's against the law.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Cuba has far limited resources than the UK but has what is said to be the 2nd best National Health service in the World.

A major problem in the UK is money wasteage

Fair enough. It depends on what you compare it to, and the fact that pre-Castro they had nothing. Do you know what % of GDP is spent on it?

I'm sure there is wastage in the NHS, as there is in any big organisation, and it is by a long way our biggest. But there is no way a cost-saving programme will get near the kind of targets this government wants, and in the mean time it is pouring away money on consultants and processes so as to be "competitive" which is a nonsense idea in healthcare.

This is what will happen. Private sector will cherry pick the routine work- hips, cataracts, and the rest, which can be treated predictably and therefore at profit. NHS hospitals will be left with complex, acute and A and E but with far less money to run them. Then the game will be to point at them and say they are "inefficient" compared to the private operators.

It's hard to believe how little public outrage there is about what is going on. In vox pops now people go on about immigration, albeit without facts and figures, and yet this will have far more effect on most people.

Lets not forget about computer systems that cost £13bn - that got shitcanned.

Mind you this lot are no better, the new system will see doctors having to fill in an online form so a computer can tell them whether they are allowed to prescribe a drug or not.

Never mind that they are professionals with a patient in front of them, if enough boxes aren't ticked they will have to tell the patient that the computer says no.

[andyrich666]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

Good points Hillman - the seatbelt one is particularly tricky.

At the moment we are in the fortunate position of still being able to treat the woman, in future though, we simply wont be able to afford to treat everyone, and determining whether the reason they are in hospital was preventable will become part of the triage procedure.

As for your mobile station, at first glance it is a truly excelllent idea, however I do worry that loads of pissheads will wander in trying to cop a feel of a nurse and kick off with the male staff.

Perhaps a station which has adequate police guarding it would be an option but the extra cost would need to be met, possibly by the people attending, or imposing a levy on the bars that are selling them the booze in the first place. But on the whole I think it's a genius idea, it would keep A&E clear for people with real emergencies on the weekend instead of having it rammed with people who need treatment for cuts and bruises.

Nice one, I genuinely think it's a fucking fantastic idea that should at least be trialed in one major town.

There is a lot you say in two posts, some is based on the past, a lot I agree with, no way should the NHS be resposnible for giving you body enhancements as it is the coolest thing of the season, I mean the guy who tried to look like Joey Essex, is a pathetic piss take and waste of money.

I can't agree with your comments on drunks, but the last one on cuts and bruises, no way should that involve going to A&E, if you have broken bones or twisted parts, yes.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

It's a cheap subject which will always prompt callers, so classic Talksport fodder.

Surely it's a wider issue of whether self-inflicted harm should be cured at the cost of the rest of us. Drunkenness is one example, but what about this? We had a neighbour who despite everything never used her seat-belt and one day ended up with her head hitting the windscreen. Apart from the immediate A and E costs, she had to have a lot of further treatment. Yet it was the law that she should use her belt, and the logical argument in favour of use was settled years ago. Should we have footed the bill for her treatment?

Apart from the principle, what about the practice? When people are admitted unconscious, should they be untreated until it is established they are willing and able to pay? Who in a busy hospital is going to collect payment? What would you do about a drunk person kicking off about it- get the police, and if you do, what offence are they committing?

I wonder if in some town centres they'd be better off having a mobile paramedic station to whom drunks are directed rather than being taken to hospital.

Free or charged, it's a mess.

Good points Hillman - the seatbelt one is particularly tricky.

At the moment we are in the fortunate position of still being able to treat the woman, in future though, we simply wont be able to afford to treat everyone, and determining whether the reason they are in hospital was preventable will become part of the triage procedure.

As for your mobile station, at first glance it is a truly excelllent idea, however I do worry that loads of pissheads will wander in trying to cop a feel of a nurse and kick off with the male staff.

Perhaps a station which has adequate police guarding it would be an option but the extra cost would need to be met, possibly by the people attending, or imposing a levy on the bars that are selling them the booze in the first place. But on the whole I think it's a genius idea, it would keep A&E clear for people with real emergencies on the weekend instead of having it rammed with people who need treatment for cuts and bruises.

Nice one, I genuinely think it's a fucking fantastic idea that should at least be trialed in one major town.

There is a lot you say in two posts, some is based on the past, a lot I agree with, no way should the NHS be resposnible for giving you body enhancements as it is the coolest thing of the season, I mean the guy who tried to look like Joey Essex, is a pathetic piss take and waste of money.

I can't agree with your comments on drunks, but the last one on cuts and bruises, no way should that involve going to A&E, if you have broken bones or twisted parts, yes.

Being drunk is self inflicted.

It differs from a sports injury where people are attempting to keep themselves healthy.

If you end up in A&E because you are drunk, if you weren't drunk, it wouldn't have happened, so you are taking money from taxpayers because of your actions in the same way as if you'd caused criminal damage to a public building.

The NHS is there to treat the sick, not the stupid.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

BTW - don't think I haven't been drunk and stupid, I have.

But had I required treatment because of my own behaviour, I'd have coughed up.

[andyrich666]

BTW - don't think I haven't been drunk and stupid, I have.

But had I required treatment because of my own behaviour, I'd have coughed up.

mke the same hence why I said 15 years since......, my mum died of Cancer I was 18, 1996, I had to watch her die, should not have been me, should have been a nurse, blood streaming from her nose or mouth after they killer her (right or wrong at the time I never know) I got a parking ticket, left the hospital, got on the piss, a few months later I over drunk, vomitted blood in the doctors surgery, drinking vodka neat, My head was gone and no one gave a shit, ended up in Colchester General, was treated well, it happened twice, I think if it happened now, maybe I would be left for dead.

Anyway older and wiser, still get drunk (every Sat and Sun) but not needed to go to hospital, did not want to say that but as you coughed up.......

[colinthewarriormonkey]

mke the same hence why I said 15 years since......, my mum died of Cancer I was 18, 1996, I had to watch her die, should not have been me, should have been a nurse,

You have to be joking.

Throughout human history we have watched our elders die - we didn't have nurses to take that away from us, it is part of our lives.

I'm sorry you were so young, I'm sorry it was traumatic for you, but it was your duty to be there, you had to be, it was your mum.

The very last thing she saw in this life was the visage of her son, yes wracked in grief, but there for her, trying to be strong, but the thing is, you don't grieve for people you don't love, in your grief she would have seen the love you had for her. You did a wonderful thing for the woman you loved, the woman who gave you life and raised you.

Had you left it to a nurse to do that, you would have been wracked with guilt, let me assure you.

It's painful, but don't ever regret that last moment.

[andyrich666]

mke the same hence why I said 15 years since......, my mum died of Cancer I was 18, 1996, I had to watch her die, should not have been me, should have been a nurse,

You have to be joking.

Throughout human history we have watched our elders die - we didn't have nurses to take that away from us, it is part of our lives.

I'm sorry you were so young, I'm sorry it was traumatic for you, but it was your duty to be there, you had to be, it was your mum.

The very last thing she saw in this life was the visage of her son, yes wracked in grief, but there for her, trying to be strong, but the thing is, you don't grieve for people you don't love, in your grief she would have seen the love you had for her. You did a wonderful thing for the woman you loved, the woman who gave you life and raised you.

Had you left it to a nurse to do that, you would have been wracked with guilt, let me assure you.

It's painful, but don't ever regret that last moment.

I am not so sure as the ward manager came and made an apology for it, I do not think for a minute she knew I was there, however it is possible and I really do appreciate your comments and I guess if I could change it I probably would not......, same as when I have been there for my dogs when they have sadly been put down.