Labour; Have They Fallen Into A Conservative Trap?

[kevin04]

He is such a plonker, look at this photo taken today at the Labour conference

Over 12000 new SNP members in the space of 48 hrs - myself included. Greens up 3000, SSP 2000.

Labour in Scotland - 17!

Tommy Sherian is talking of a 'YesAlliance' by voting the SNP for Westminister and then repaying Greens/SSP/SNP for Holyrood on the list vote.

An opinion poll already out has the SNP on 49% of support. The independence fight is off the table for now, but if you translate those percentages on Scotlandvotes.com/westminister

You would get
SNP 47
LAB 11
LIB 1
CON 0

I think that is unrealisitc though as many of these strong holds in Glasgow for Labour and other regions have huge majorities.

We'll see if the 1.6 million yes voter keep engaged. The early signs are on an overwemingly amount of them are up for it.

SNP's conference in November might have to get moved to McDiarmid Park.

SNP now have 35000 members, the Lib Dems just over 40000 for the whole UK. We'll see, but have a feeling that by the end of the week we'll see the SNP overtake that.

[kevin04]

I think the Tories have actually played a blinder in all this.

Get Brown and the Scots Labour MPs to do the heavy lifting with the Tories having little dialogue in Scotland - he came up twice I think during the campaign run (Cameron) spoke to Scots Tories in Aberdeen and to RBS and Standard Life board members in Edinburgh.

Cameron can also run in England on ''We saved the Union'' whilst the Labour party will do the same in Scotland. The estimate of 40% Labour voters who voted Yes, not all, but many of them are feeling rejected by Labour right now and I think they will desert them in their droves next May.

The UKIP vote will start to fall in 2015 in the polls when it becomes clear it's between Labour and the Tories and the debates between Milliband and Cameron. The unfair nature of FPTP will see the old, now new UKIP fans hold their nose on polling day and give their vote to the Tories.

The 45% who voted yes seem to be forming an alliance to vote out Labour in 2015. We'll see if the engagement keeps up, but those new member numbers are startling. Labour have huge majorities in many places in Scotland, but although Scotland voted no on a 85% turnout, what will the turnout for the General Election be? And look at the areas who voted Yes - all Labour (baring Dundee) strongholds.

Labour in Scotland should be bricking it for next year's election.

We'll see though. It's going to be an interesting few months and 2015.

[Holden Mcgroyne]

Going in to am election opposing a referendum on the EU and opposing English votes for English lawmakers should be a death knell. I still fear they'll get the 35% that gets them a majority under our gerrymandered system.

[Ralph]

Going in to am election opposing a referendum on the EU and opposing English votes for English lawmakers should be a death knell. I still fear they'll get the 35% that gets them a majority under our gerrymandered system.

The only person who tried to gerrymander the system was Dave Cameron. But like all his schemes he didn't think it through & ended up needing the already underrepresented LIb Dems to vote for even less Lib Dems MPs. Even the Lib Dem turkeys aren't daft enough to vote for Christmas.

[Ralph]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

[carcinogen]

Labour in Scotland should be bricking it for next year's election.

Gordon Brown, COME ON DOWN! Scotland's first minister in waiting.

[Ralph]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

[the rotary club]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

It's almost as if the Torys and their apologists have forgotten they don't carry a majority in the HoC.

As it is they'll go into the next election with UKIP accusing them of shafting the English electorate in favour of the Jocks.

[kevin04]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

[Ralph]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

[Ralph]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

It's almost as if the Torys and their apologists have forgotten they don't carry a majority in the HoC.

As it is they'll go into the next election with UKIP accusing them of shafting the English electorate in favour of the Jocks.

Cameron will have to deliver what he promised in the event of a no vote. He can't add conditions to it after the vote has taken place. If he didn't want the Scottish parlaiment getting more powers without the West Lothian question being answered he should have said so at the time.

[kevin04]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

I accept the result.

There's no way I'll accept that Labour are the best for the working class people in Scotland.

It seems there are many in Scotland judging by the SNP's 14,000 new members along with the Greens 3,000 and SSP 2,000s believe that there are better alternatives to serve Scotland's traditional working class than Labour.

[Ralph]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

I accept the result.

There's no way I'll accept that Labour are the best for the working class people in Scotland.

It seems there are many in Scotland judging by the SNP's 14,000 new members along with the Greens 3,000 and SSP 2,000s believe that there are better alternatives to serve Scotland's traditional working class than Labour.

It's all about what's best for the working class. Just a coincidence that all the parties you mention supported the yes campaign.

[the rotary club]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

I accept the result.

There's no way I'll accept that Labour are the best for the working class people in Scotland.

It seems there are many in Scotland judging by the SNP's 14,000 new members along with the Greens 3,000 and SSP 2,000s believe that there are better alternatives to serve Scotland's traditional working class than Labour.

Who cares as long as you lot aren't electing Tories or any other right wing fucknuggets!

[Holden Mcgroyne]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

It's almost as if the Torys and their apologists have forgotten they don't carry a majority in the HoC.

As it is they'll go into the next election with UKIP accusing them of shafting the English electorate in favour of the Jocks.

Cameron will have to deliver what he promised in the event of a no vote. He can't add conditions to it after the vote has taken place. If he didn't want the Scottish parlaiment getting more powers without the West Lothian question being answered he should have said so at the time.

Well he can, and he has and Labour haven't got a clue how to respond. Look at Milliband yesterday, skewered completely by Andrew Marr.

[the rotary club]

He can't deliver without the Libdems.

Oh dear.

[Ralph]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

It's almost as if the Torys and their apologists have forgotten they don't carry a majority in the HoC.

As it is they'll go into the next election with UKIP accusing them of shafting the English electorate in favour of the Jocks.

Cameron will have to deliver what he promised in the event of a no vote. He can't add conditions to it after the vote has taken place. If he didn't want the Scottish parlaiment getting more powers without the West Lothian question being answered he should have said so at the time.

Well he can, and he has and Labour haven't got a clue how to respond. Look at Milliband yesterday, skewered completely by Andrew Marr.

He can make a vow & break I days later. But why would anyone believe anything he pledges in the 2015 election. What weasel excuse will he come up with for not holding a referendum on our membership of the EU?

[kevin04]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

I accept the result.

There's no way I'll accept that Labour are the best for the working class people in Scotland.

It seems there are many in Scotland judging by the SNP's 14,000 new members along with the Greens 3,000 and SSP 2,000s believe that there are better alternatives to serve Scotland's traditional working class than Labour.

It's all about what's best for the working class. Just a coincidence that all the parties you mention supported the yes campaign.

All 4 council areas who voted Yes plus Invercylde (49-51) have been let down for years, decades by Labour - they are absolultey fed up. All 5 of those areas are traditional Labour heartlands. If they keep engaged, Labour could take an absolute hiding in Scotland next year.

40,000 SNP members now.

The UK Liberal Democrats have 43k.

[Ralph]

He can't deliver without the Libdems.

Oh dear.

Any constitutional changes Dave makes can be changed or repealed by a future governmet anyway.

[Ralph]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

I accept the result.

There's no way I'll accept that Labour are the best for the working class people in Scotland.

It seems there are many in Scotland judging by the SNP's 14,000 new members along with the Greens 3,000 and SSP 2,000s believe that there are better alternatives to serve Scotland's traditional working class than Labour.

It's all about what's best for the working class. Just a coincidence that all the parties you mention supported the yes campaign.

All 4 council areas who voted Yes plus Invercylde (49-51) have been let down for years, decades by Labour - they are absolultey fed up. All 5 of those areas are traditional Labour heartlands. If they keep engaged, Labour could take an absolute hiding in Scotland next year.

40,000 SNP members now.

The UK Liberal Democrats have 43k.

How long have the SNP been in power? What are they doing for the people of Inverclyde? How will cutting corporation tax help working class people. The only thing that motivates the SNP is Scottish independence.

[Royal24s]

Why is anyone stil attached to the tribal labour/ conservative crap?
They're all the same and the only thing any of them care about is getting their crappy obsolete party elected.
Vote UKIP

[birdie]

Gordon Brown plays a big part in saving the & the yessers hate him for it. Inevitable really. What is surprising is that out of spite they're starting campaign to help elect a Tory government. Just shows they don't believe in anything other separating Scotland from the UK. That's why their plans for what an independent Scotland were so vague. They don't care what an independent Scotland is like, just as long as it's independent.

13,382 members. 50% increase in their members in the last 4 days.

Lib Dems UK number is 43,000 odd.

SNP now up to 38-39,000. I'm guessing by the end of the week, the SNP will have more members than the Libs.

I wonder what will happen when the new leader of the SNP has to admit there is not going to be another referendum in the foreseeable future. The SNP are in danger of looking like they only respect the will of the Scottish people if they vote for what the SNP wants. Why not just accept the result with good grace?

Can't see her doing that.

[Holden Mcgroyne]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -alexander

I thought Danny Alexander was suffering from severe Tory Stockholm syndrome but he's actually showing signs of thinking for himself.

It's almost as if the Torys and their apologists have forgotten they don't carry a majority in the HoC.

As it is they'll go into the next election with UKIP accusing them of shafting the English electorate in favour of the Jocks.

Cameron will have to deliver what he promised in the event of a no vote. He can't add conditions to it after the vote has taken place. If he didn't want the Scottish parlaiment getting more powers without the West Lothian question being answered he should have said so at the time.

It's not down to what it is the Tory manifesto, it will be Labour's position on an EU referendum and the English votes for English lawmakers that will matter.



Well he can, and he has and Labour haven't got a clue how to respond. Look at Milliband yesterday, skewered completely by Andrew Marr.

He can make a vow & break I days later. But why would anyone believe anything he pledges in the 2015 election. What weasel excuse will he come up with for not holding a referendum on our membership of the EU?

[shabbado]

He can't deliver without the Libdems.

Oh dear.

Any constitutional changes Dave makes can be changed or repealed by a future governmet anyway.

You hope.

Did Labour, during their 13 years of power, repeal anything from the previous Tory regime?

[Hillman avenger]

I hope Cameron, Gove and co are recognised for their utter cynicism in this.

We knew the referendum was coming for 2 years, and that this might be an issue afterwards. Now to make it a condition of granting the scots what they want if England matches is disgraceful.

That is not to say there shouldn't be an English assembly or any of that; but to try to cobble together a constitution in two months that could affect us for decades is outrageous.