The rise of UKIP - part 3

[The Tick]

Well if I said black people are lazy, would you consider that acceptable?

That as well as your denial of anti-semitism in the Labour party, when it's clear for anyone on the outside (and many of those on the inside).

Add in all the anti-British postings as well and it creates a picture of someone as guilty of prejudice, as those you accuse.

Personally, I understand that everyone has prejudices. What I don't accept is that some are deemed as acceptable while others are not.

No, it's a slur based on skin colour.

Criticising the work ethic of people in this country and wanting Brits (of all colours) to take a better approach to it is not racist.

[Darkyboy]

Well if I said black people are lazy, would you consider that acceptable?

That as well as your denial of anti-semitism in the Labour party, when it's clear for anyone on the outside (and many of those on the inside).

Add in all the anti-British postings as well and it creates a picture of someone as guilty of prejudice, as those you accuse.

Personally, I understand that everyone has prejudices. What I don't accept is that some are deemed as acceptable while others are not.

No, it's a slur based on skin colour.

Criticising the work ethic of people in this country and wanting Brits (of all colours) to take a better approach to it is not racist.

Right, so your prejudices are acceptable, but the prejudices of others are not. No wonder the general public do not listen to Labour, if you are typical of the Corbyn era.

Also, given that you have called posters on here racist, with no evidence. Perhaps you shouldn't criticise anyone else on the basis of perceived prejudice.

[The Tick]

i have called posters here racist, and quoted their own posts as evidence.

And racial prejudice (which I've never expressed anywhere) is unacceptable.

[Darkyboy]

i have called posters here racist, and quoted their own posts as evidence.

And racial prejudice (which I've never expressed anywhere) is unacceptable.

Again, so your prejudice is acceptable. But the prejudices of others are not? That is some moral superiority complex you have.

[The Tick]

i have called posters here racist, and quoted their own posts as evidence.

And racial prejudice (which I've never expressed anywhere) is unacceptable.

Again, so your prejudice is acceptable. But the prejudices of others are not? That is some moral superiority complex you have.

If I'm prejudiced against people who are unpleasant as individuals, that's fine by me.

[subsub]

to be fair to subsub, he was referring directly to the party itself.

Correct.

[Lou Grant]

Poor old Steve - first Spurs and then UKIP, he can't half pick 'em.

[Steve Hunt]

Poor old Steve - first Spurs and then UKIP, he can't half pick 'em.

Yup.

Good job I'm not a betting man - I'd be pot less.

[Darkyboy]

i have called posters here racist, and quoted their own posts as evidence.

And racial prejudice (which I've never expressed anywhere) is unacceptable.

Again, so your prejudice is acceptable. But the prejudices of others are not? That is some moral superiority complex you have.

If I'm prejudiced against people who are unpleasant as individuals, that's fine by me.

It's not individuals though is it? You have expressed prejudice against the British, the Conservatives and UKip, the police etc. So we are not talking about individuals. Your prejudices cover the majority of the population and that is why any attempt to smear someone else is laughable.

[The Tick]

i have called posters here racist, and quoted their own posts as evidence.

And racial prejudice (which I've never expressed anywhere) is unacceptable.

Again, so your prejudice is acceptable. But the prejudices of others are not? That is some moral superiority complex you have.

If I'm prejudiced against people who are unpleasant as individuals, that's fine by me.

It's not individuals though is it? You have expressed prejudice against the British, the Conservatives and UKip, the police etc. So we are not talking about individuals. Your prejudices cover the majority of the population and that is why any attempt to smear someone else is laughable.

People don't choose their race, but they can choose their politics or their jobs. So having prejudices against them over being Tories or pigs is nowhere the same as having it over race.

And I have no prejudice against Brits. Criticising the society I am in is not the same as racial prejudice.

[Darkyboy]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

[The Tick]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

[Darkyboy]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

Not at all Tick. You are as prejudiced as those you accuse. Why do you think you come in for so much flak on the forum? It's not because you are some lone figure for justice, in a world of evil forces. It's because you label and malign people for their perfectly valid views, while not accepting you own prejudiced standpoint. You do not have any tolerance of the views of others.

You are symbolic of why Labour will not get elected any time soon. Many people see Labour for what it is now; a small group of pseudo-intellectuals lecturing people how to think. The decline of UKip will not lead to an upsurge in support for a leftist Labour; it will lead to even more support for the Conservatives.

Personally, I would prefer UKip to be a political force, but I would settle for a dozen years of Conservative rule rather than term of Corbynite Labour. I would bet good money that the majority of the electorate feel the same.

[Roy Twing]

That's "it"?

Criticising my country's institutions (or the way it works) isn't a racist thing at all.

To state that 'brits are lazy' as you have done on several occasions, is not criticising a country's institutions, it is prejudicing its natives.
(Fine if you can back up the statement with evidence that holds water).

Would you be equally comfortable if someone were to state that bangladeshis are paedophiles, or jamaicans are criminals?

[Roy Twing]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

Not at all Tick. You are as prejudiced as those you accuse. Why do you think you come in for so much flak on the forum? It's not because you are some lone figure for justice, in a world of evil forces. It's because you label and malign people for their perfectly valid views, while not accepting you own prejudiced standpoint. You do not have any tolerance of the views of others.

You are symbolic of why Labour will not get elected any time soon. Many people see Labour for what it is now; a small group of pseudo-intellectuals lecturing people how to think. The decline of UKip will not lead to an upsurge in support for a leftist Labour; it will lead to even more support for the Conservatives.

Personally, I would prefer UKip to be a political force, but I would settle for a dozen years of Conservative rule rather than term of Corbynite Labour. I would bet good money that the majority of the electorate feel the same.

Spot on - much better put than my comments regarding tick the racist.

Regarding your final paragraph, I fear that were going to get an amalgam of career politicians from labour and liberals banding together and creating an updated version of the SDP, - this time it would probably succeed.

[Hillman avenger]

I agree with the analysis that UKIP's problems will not help Labour.

Corbyn and co will not win an election.

I suspect that UKIP has supporters who would not go elsewhere.

[Darkyboy]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

Not at all Tick. You are as prejudiced as those you accuse. Why do you think you come in for so much flak on the forum? It's not because you are some lone figure for justice, in a world of evil forces. It's because you label and malign people for their perfectly valid views, while not accepting you own prejudiced standpoint. You do not have any tolerance of the views of others.

You are symbolic of why Labour will not get elected any time soon. Many people see Labour for what it is now; a small group of pseudo-intellectuals lecturing people how to think. The decline of UKip will not lead to an upsurge in support for a leftist Labour; it will lead to even more support for the Conservatives.

Personally, I would prefer UKip to be a political force, but I would settle for a dozen years of Conservative rule rather than term of Corbynite Labour. I would bet good money that the majority of the electorate feel the same.

Spot on - much better put than my comments regarding tick the racist.

Regarding your final paragraph, I fear that were going to get an amalgam of career politicians from labour and liberals banding together and creating an updated version of the SDP, - this time it would probably succeed.

Thank you Roy. I can accept that people have different political loyalties, but to label a party as racist as Tick has done is more than that. Especially given the problems that Labour has with anti-Semitism.

You may well be right regarding some kind of grand alliance. Even so, I do not see people voting for them. They would have to move to the right; more so than most of Labour or the Liberal Democrats are as the moment.

[Roy Twing]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

Not at all Tick. You are as prejudiced as those you accuse. Why do you think you come in for so much flak on the forum? It's not because you are some lone figure for justice, in a world of evil forces. It's because you label and malign people for their perfectly valid views, while not accepting you own prejudiced standpoint. You do not have any tolerance of the views of others.

You are symbolic of why Labour will not get elected any time soon. Many people see Labour for what it is now; a small group of pseudo-intellectuals lecturing people how to think. The decline of UKip will not lead to an upsurge in support for a leftist Labour; it will lead to even more support for the Conservatives.

Personally, I would prefer UKip to be a political force, but I would settle for a dozen years of Conservative rule rather than term of Corbynite Labour. I would bet good money that the majority of the electorate feel the same.

Spot on - much better put than my comments regarding tick the racist.

Regarding your final paragraph, I fear that were going to get an amalgam of career politicians from labour and liberals banding together and creating an updated version of the SDP, - this time it would probably succeed.

Thank you Roy. I can accept that people have different political loyalties, but to label a party as racist as Tick has done is more than that. Especially given the problems that Labour has with anti-Semitism.

You may well be right regarding some kind of grand alliance. Even so, I do not see people voting for them. They would have to move to the right; more so than most of Labour or the Liberal Democrats are as the moment.

It does seem to be the 'go to' tactic of the mainstream parties to label/intimate that an outsider party that dares mention immigration is racist, and it does seem that there are plenty of unimaginative morons who are happy to follow that lead without thinking it through.
We have (or had) more than our fair share of them on here.

[The Tick]

You can justify your prejudices any way you like, but they are still prejudices. Just because someone supports UKip, or the Conservatives does not mean that they are all the same. Just as people who are black are not all the same.

Likening/comparing racial prejudice to political tribalism is just the silliest thing you've come up with yet.

Not at all Tick. You are as prejudiced as those you accuse. Why do you think you come in for so much flak on the forum? It's not because you are some lone figure for justice, in a world of evil forces. It's because you label and malign people for their perfectly valid views, while not accepting you own prejudiced standpoint. You do not have any tolerance of the views of others.

You are symbolic of why Labour will not get elected any time soon. Many people see Labour for what it is now; a small group of pseudo-intellectuals lecturing people how to think. The decline of UKip will not lead to an upsurge in support for a leftist Labour; it will lead to even more support for the Conservatives.

Personally, I would prefer UKip to be a political force, but I would settle for a dozen years of Conservative rule rather than term of Corbynite Labour. I would bet good money that the majority of the electorate feel the same.

I frequent a forum that is populated with embittered nationalist and racist individuals who are the usual bunch who jump in when i provide a contrarian view.

Comparing political tribalism to racial prejudice shows up your skewed logic.

And if people prefer to swallow up the propaganda served to them and be shafted by the Tories, well let them.

[Darkyboy]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

[The Tick]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

Prejudice against someone based on their individual choice (political affiliation) and prejudice against someone based on something they had no choice over (racial identity) are two very different things.

And my "prejudice" against the Tories, UKIP, pigs etc is based on actual experience and reason.

[Darkyboy]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

Prejudice against someone based on their individual choice (political affiliation) and prejudice against someone based on something they had no choice over (racial identity) are two very different things.

And my "prejudice" against the Tories, UKIP, pigs etc is based on actual experience and reason.

What if someone said their racism was based on actual experience and reason? Would that be acceptable?

[The Tick]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

Prejudice against someone based on their individual choice (political affiliation) and prejudice against someone based on something they had no choice over (racial identity) are two very different things.

And my "prejudice" against the Tories, UKIP, pigs etc is based on actual experience and reason.

What if someone said their racism was based on actual experience and reason? Would that be acceptable?

Why would it be about race? Surely the experience and reason would relate to that of an individual or set of individuals?

And getting back to the original point I came to discuss, UKIP politicians are on record of making racist comments. Which are indefensible.

[Darkyboy]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

Prejudice against someone based on their individual choice (political affiliation) and prejudice against someone based on something they had no choice over (racial identity) are two very different things.

And my "prejudice" against the Tories, UKIP, pigs etc is based on actual experience and reason.

What if someone said their racism was based on actual experience and reason? Would that be acceptable?

Why would it be about race? Surely the experience and reason would relate to that of an individual or set of individuals?

And getting back to the original point I came to discuss, UKIP politicians are on record of making racist comments. Which are indefensible.

It would be about race, because your base your prejudices on a whole group of people; The same as someone with racist opinions does.

Still waiting for your examples of racism on here by the way.

[Roy Twing]

I don't have skewed logic. I see prejudice as more than just shouting racist as every opportunity however. By the way, where is your proof of this racism Tick? Please provide examples.

Prejudice - "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." That pretty much sums up your views on the Brits, the police, the armed forces, the Conservatives, UKip etc. etc. etc.

Prejudice against someone based on their individual choice (political affiliation) and prejudice against someone based on something they had no choice over (racial identity) are two very different things.

And my "prejudice" against the Tories, UKIP, pigs etc is based on actual experience and reason.

What if someone said their racism was based on actual experience and reason? Would that be acceptable?

Why would it be about race? Surely the experience and reason would relate to that of an individual or set of individuals?

And getting back to the original point I came to discuss, UKIP politicians are on record of making racist comments. Which are indefensible.

It would be about race, because your base your prejudices on a whole group of people; The same as someone with racist opinions does.

Still waiting for your examples of racism on here by the way.

A long departed poster on here, with the same mindset as the tick repeatedly accused me of being a racist and I constantly challenged him to back his scurrilous claims - he never did.
So I wouldn't hold your breath.