talkFORUM Archive

Zambo wrote:Only it's mom where I come from.

Fug1 wrote:

Zambo wrote:Only it's mom where I come from.

Which part of Brum Zambo? I'm from West Brom but living in Kings Norton.

Roy Twing wrote:Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

Roy Twing wrote:Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

'Jean Alexander, Coronation Street's Hilda Ogden, dies aged 90'

'Much-loved actor starred in the TV soap and Last of the Summer Wine'

'Former Coronation Street actress Jean Alexander, who starred as Hilda Ogden in the soap for over two decades, has died aged 90.'

Carlos J wrote:

Roy Twing wrote:Just reading the celebrity has died thread, and didn't wan't to disrupt it, so I raise the point here.
I noticed in the obituary provided that the guardian described her as an actor rather than actress, - all the other news sources I looked at used 'actress', so, is this just a typo, or another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?

Sorry, Roy, did you actually read the obituary? https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ogden-dies

The reason I ask is, the headline of the article is:

'Jean Alexander, Coronation Street's Hilda Ogden, dies aged 90'

The subheadline, presumably what you noted is:

'Much-loved actor starred in the TV soap and Last of the Summer Wine'

However, the obituary starts:

'Former Coronation Street actress Jean Alexander, who starred as Hilda Ogden in the soap for over two decades, has died aged 90.'

So, The Guardian, along with the other news sources you looked at, does uses 'actress'. The sub-editor who came up with the subheadline had his/her reasons for it. Was it for space (not likely), aesthetics (not likely), PCness (also not likely as why then allow actress) or AN Other?

To me, just makes The Guard look slovenly and inconsistent, as often their wont, hence called The Grauniad. And not 'another example of 'gender neutrality' or whatever they call this nonsensical claptrap?'.

Carlos J wrote:Agree Roy, it seems a sub-editor thing. Maybe our own dear subsub will pass comment. The Guard, like all organisations will have a style guide

subsub wrote:

Carlos J wrote:Agree Roy, it seems a sub-editor thing. Maybe our own dear subsub will pass comment. The Guard, like all organisations will have a style guide

Well, a lot of what is in a style guide is neither right nor wrong; it's just there to ensure consistency.

I drew up a style guide for the company I work for, which involved deciding the rules we would enforce for various bits of spelling/grammar/punctuation etc:
- single quotes not double quotes
- one to nine written out; 10 and above written as a number
- writing times as 10.30 not 10:30

That sort of thing.

Obviously, The Guardian is going to be hot on things like using 'actor' not 'actress', because they're keen to be seen as non-discriminatory etc

Petingo wrote:Did that company actually have people whom wrote 10:30 when it was half past ten

Darkyboy wrote:I've noticed actresses being described as female actors over the last year or so. So we are still allowed to know that they are female, but they are equal to male actors. It does seem pretty ridiculous, but those of us in the real world, would still describe Jennifer Lawrence as an actress. If that "offends" anyone that's tough shit.

Shedboy wrote:

Darkyboy wrote:I've noticed actresses being described as female actors over the last year or so. So we are still allowed to know that they are female, but they are equal to male actors. It does seem pretty ridiculous, but those of us in the real world, would still describe Jennifer Lawrence as an actress. If that "offends" anyone that's tough shit.

Indeed.
Although either description tends to be a misnomer in most cases, comediennes are usually described as female comedians these days. It's as if there's a stigma in being called an actress or comedienne.

Hillman avenger wrote:

Royal24s wrote:

Darkyboy wrote:

The Tick wrote:

m4rkb wrote:How come the French, Germans and others manage to function with gender specific nouns le, la die der das etc and aren't subjected to a bunch of fucking lunatics arguing the toss over them.

Imagine what it'd be like over here if we had them. We've have to rewrite the dictionary on every single word. For a start they'd argue whether woman was a female orientated word and man male orientated.

What's more, we'd actually entertain this bollocks.

French is French. English is English. But both have evolved over time to reflect changes in society. Indeed the French are concerned about the proliferation of English words and phrases into everyday dialogue in French society. But that's how things go. Nothing ever stays the same.

Interesting that you say that. I would imagine that our actor/ actress came from the French acteur/actrice. Therefore, it would make sense to keep the two terms. The French concern over terms like "le weekend" etc has nothing to do with it.

Well, both versions come from Latin, which also had a masculine and feminine version.
Point is that this sort of bollocks limits the scope of the language to express shades of meaning. Of course this wouldn't matter much to anyone who is so stupid as to take it seriously , because they probably only just manage to string a few simple words together anyway.
Words and language express thoughts, so what would it matter to someone like tick if the language is simplified? On the other hand , those who have a more complex thought process will require a more complex means of expressing it.
Of course , the whole word banning thing is really a means of controlling simple minded individuals and limiting , still further, their ability to understand logical arguments against those who wish to ration our word supply.
Since we get our ideas and information from words, they think that if they ban the words, they can gradually smother the ideas and information which they dislike , but cannot overcome with logic or truth.

Demented again
"Those who wish to ration our word supply" FFS Grow up
The only person taking this seriously is Twing.
The use of "actor" a gender-neutral has been around for years, and started in the US at the Academy Awards.
It's only bringing it into line with other gender-neutral words
Plumber
Electrician
Decorator
Bricklayer
Carpenter
Driver
Shop Assistant
Professor
Tutor
Counsellor
Teacher
Doctor
Nurse
Physiotherapist
etc
etc

Royal24s wrote:

Hillman avenger wrote:

Royal24s wrote:

Darkyboy wrote:

The Tick wrote:

m4rkb wrote:How come the French, Germans and others manage to function with gender specific nouns le, la die der das etc and aren't subjected to a bunch of fucking lunatics arguing the toss over them.

Imagine what it'd be like over here if we had them. We've have to rewrite the dictionary on every single word. For a start they'd argue whether woman was a female orientated word and man male orientated.

What's more, we'd actually entertain this bollocks.

French is French. English is English. But both have evolved over time to reflect changes in society. Indeed the French are concerned about the proliferation of English words and phrases into everyday dialogue in French society. But that's how things go. Nothing ever stays the same.

Interesting that you say that. I would imagine that our actor/ actress came from the French acteur/actrice. Therefore, it would make sense to keep the two terms. The French concern over terms like "le weekend" etc has nothing to do with it.

Well, both versions come from Latin, which also had a masculine and feminine version.
Point is that this sort of bollocks limits the scope of the language to express shades of meaning. Of course this wouldn't matter much to anyone who is so stupid as to take it seriously , because they probably only just manage to string a few simple words together anyway.
Words and language express thoughts, so what would it matter to someone like tick if the language is simplified? On the other hand , those who have a more complex thought process will require a more complex means of expressing it.
Of course , the whole word banning thing is really a means of controlling simple minded individuals and limiting , still further, their ability to understand logical arguments against those who wish to ration our word supply.
Since we get our ideas and information from words, they think that if they ban the words, they can gradually smother the ideas and information which they dislike , but cannot overcome with logic or truth.

Demented again
"Those who wish to ration our word supply" FFS Grow up
The only person taking this seriously is Twing.
The use of "actor" a gender-neutral has been around for years, and started in the US at the Academy Awards.
It's only bringing it into line with other gender-neutral words
Plumber
Electrician
Decorator
Bricklayer
Carpenter
Driver
Shop Assistant
Professor
Tutor
Counsellor
Teacher
Doctor
Nurse
Physiotherapist
etc
etc

There you go again with the name calling and insults !
Unfortunately, it's not demented because it's too hard for you to cope with intellectually or educationally .
If you can't grasp or accept the part about restricting words leading to restricting thought and expression, ( which is widely published as a policy in the former Soviet Union and Goebbels), surely you can understand that this particular case lessens the meaning of the word ?
All those random words you list demonstrate bugger all, except that you obviously don't understand Latin any better than you do English or many other things. Of course nouns can be neuter , and often have to be grammatically . Second declension nouns can ONLY be masculine or neuter can't they ?

I am increasingly though reluctantly drawn to the conclusion that it's a mistake to encourage poorly educated people to imagine that their strong opinions of things which they just don't understand are as valid as anyone else's .

Sid Pervcat wrote:Basically,who fucking cares?