A discussion about words phrases and language

[andyrich666]

I think we should ask Stanloi his view, he is against the word coloured, for me I never knew Coloured was insulting til I heard his rant which was quite comical, he is not black to me though, more cafe con leche, Nigger is not a word I would use to talk about blacks or to insult them I just personally do not see it as offensive.

[George Summer]

If someone calls me a cunt

People do that all the time to me, as they should, because I am.

I'm claiming the word back, for cunts like me.

[Thursty]

I don't personally think the word nigger is offensive, I think the word 'coon' is offensive, if I wanted to be offensive to a black person I would use that second word as I would use the 'cunt' word also, Id never use 'Nigger' as I do not think it is taken that offensively or offensively enough.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Those who are saying that it isn't offensive to use skin colour in insults are forgetting one fundamental point, and that is you have no right to say who gets offended and who doesn't.

I personally, have no problems with 'words' and believe the PC sector have gone bonkers and not just on so called 'racist incidents', however who am I to say that a black or Asian person shouldn't feel racially abused by the use of words which are generally accepted has having racial undertones. That is why they are best left out imo.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the reason for using them in the first place.

You've already been told several times on this thread.

It's a descriptor.

In your opinion, others will find it offensive and degrading. Who is right, you or them?

Well if you're insulting someone, they're supposed to find it offensive, that's kind of the point in doing it.

There is a difference between using insulting language and a racial slur. Calling someone a black cunt imo is a racial slur. Hiding behind 'it's a descriptor' doesn't wash, and thankfully it doesn't either with authorities, like the FA who charge players for that sort of language.

That does not automatically mean that the person who insults is a racist, but they shouldn't be surprised when they are called one, because it is viewed as an insult borne on prejudice by many.

It's no different to being called ginger

[George Summer]

It's no different to being called ginger

Isn't that a bit close to the Stewart Lee thing about Jimmy Hill, a Blue Whale jaw bone and chin on chin violence?

[andyrich666]

Those who are saying that it isn't offensive to use skin colour in insults are forgetting one fundamental point, and that is you have no right to say who gets offended and who doesn't.

I personally, have no problems with 'words' and believe the PC sector have gone bonkers and not just on so called 'racist incidents', however who am I to say that a black or Asian person shouldn't feel racially abused by the use of words which are generally accepted has having racial undertones. That is why they are best left out imo.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the reason for using them in the first place.

You've already been told several times on this thread.

It's a descriptor.

In your opinion, others will find it offensive and degrading. Who is right, you or them?

Well if you're insulting someone, they're supposed to find it offensive, that's kind of the point in doing it.

There is a difference between using insulting language and a racial slur. Calling someone a black cunt imo is a racial slur. Hiding behind 'it's a descriptor' doesn't wash, and thankfully it doesn't either with authorities, like the FA who charge players for that sort of language.

That does not automatically mean that the person who insults is a racist, but they shouldn't be surprised when they are called one, because it is viewed as an insult borne on prejudice by many.

It's no different to being called ginger

+1 I totally agree !

[Lord Notin Kwestion]

Surely a lot of racism boils down to thinking the person they are insulting is a cunt in the first place regardless of skin colour?

I don't think that's true. Some people insult others because of the colour of their skin. And in that and what I spoke about earlier is the difference between being a racist and using racist language imo.

Anyway enough from me on here, I've given enough views on this subject.

I've asked mark if he will close off this shit about the use of nigger on the forum, it's gone on long enough imo.

Well done zambo. This pish is stinking the place out.

[mark]

so...is nigger allowed or not?
WHether it's a kkk member, lyrics in a song or young hoodlums addressing each other...what's the score?

In general parlance, not. There is too much of an opportunity for it or similar words to be construed as hateful or "intending to incite".

[mark]

Surely a lot of racism boils down to thinking the person they are insulting is a cunt in the first place regardless of skin colour?

Someone argued recently with me that no one can be racist unless they hold some position of power that can unduly affect a person. They can only be prejudiced when not wielding power.

Maybe, but there are a lot of people out there who are quite simply racist in the same way as there are numbers who are homophobic and others who hate based on religion. I think anybody who chooses to use certain words as part of an insult will always be at risk of being considered as part of one of those groups.

[paolo]

so...is nigger allowed or not?

A certain person who tried to stifle the discussion states that anyone who uses the word nigger should accept being called racist.

Maybe he can write a list of people who use that word, and that should keep him busy for years.

Please, no weak answers regarding 'context'.

WHether it's a kkk member, lyrics in a song or young hoodlums addressing each other...what's the score?

If you fuck this thread up with your personal grudges, like you did the last, this will be locked also.

Send mark a PM if you want a direct answer, I've given you mine enough times, instead of shit stirring in this one.

There will be no more warnings, this is your second and last.

you started gobshiting in this thread...I will find it, quote iyt, then you can lock it and fuck it up as you always do

[paolo]

Those who are saying that it isn't offensive to use skin colour in insults are forgetting one fundamental point, and that is you have no right to say who gets offended and who doesn't.

I personally, have no problems with 'words' and believe the PC sector have gone bonkers and not just on so called 'racist incidents', however who am I to say that a black or Asian person shouldn't feel racially abused by the use of words which are generally accepted has having racial undertones. That is why they are best left out imo.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the reason for using them in the first place.

WTF are you even in this thread?

You did your best to mess the threads up, when that failed, you went locking, when that failed, you went deleting...now the threat of locking again, after involoving youself.

You just cannot help yourself.

If you can't mod responsibly, hang up your boots, you can't even trust yourself.

Stay out of this thread, it doesn't concern you and you have already admitted you don't want to talk about the subject.

Stay out.

[paolo]

so...is nigger allowed or not?
WHether it's a kkk member, lyrics in a song or young hoodlums addressing each other...what's the score?

In general parlance, not. There is too much of an opportunity for it or similar words to be construed as hateful or "intending to incite".

That's a fair point, Mark, so for the list of banned words, we could make a start:

Nigger
Paki
Aussie
Mick
Paddy
Jock

Does it extend to geographical insult?...

on the footy field, you get fouled and respond with...

you dirty fat bastard
you dirty black bastard
you dirty ginger bastard
you dirty irish bastard
you dirty scouse bastard
you dirty jock bastard
you dirty cockney bastard

all insults...all 'say what you see' insults

but certain people will highlight one as banned, and the others as acceptable?

obviously a little daft, but highlights the grey area

[m4rkb]

Surely a lot of racism boils down to thinking the person they are insulting is a cunt in the first place regardless of skin colour?

Someone argued recently with me that no one can be racist unless they hold some position of power that can unduly affect a person. They can only be prejudiced when not wielding power.

Maybe, but there are a lot of people out there who are quite simply racist in the same way as there are numbers who are homophobic and others who hate based on religion. I think anybody who chooses to use certain words as part of an insult will always be at risk of being considered as part of one of those groups.

As someone on here is often accused as being racist , I can honestly say nothing is say against people is based on skin colour. There is always a wider issue with me of whether the person under attack is lacking in some other department regarding their attitude.

If skin colour was my prime reason for disliking people, I'd have to excuse every low down piece of white shit in the country while dissing fine citizens who have anything heavier than a light tan. This is simply not the case.

I spend most of my time on here discussing racism with people who defend any piece of detritus just because they are 'of colour'. If they could simply admit certain elements of certain races (including english people) are no good and their race is no excuse I wouldn't need to argue at all. As it stands they won't.

Certain cultures have lesser values than others in the civilised world and the same people constantly defend them too. They invent phrases to explain it away like 'cultural relativism'.

We have built an entire industry of these people defending the worst of the worst purely on race grounds which has done nothing but create a massive racial divide which various spokesmen for various groups have made a very cozy living out of over many years.

If it wasn't for these people, issues of race would be nowhere near as controversial as they like to make them.

[mark]

We won't have any lists on the basis that I am not going down the road of having to maintain it or even justify words or phrases being on such a list. My preference is to trust people to trust their own judgement. The ground rule will be that this forum is not a place where people will come to post certain "stuff" just because they can.

[paolo]

I was hoping that a list would eradicate the grey area, and help sort out the faux offence and snide modding.

Leaving it open to interpretation leaves it open to abuse

Banned words could be kept on a list, making enforcement of the rules fairer

[mark]

If we reach the point where a list of banned words and phrases has to be maintained then it's probably time for us all to jog on somewhere else.

Similarly on the point of snide modding it ends up being based on one person's opinion against another which can become quite subjective based on differing values. As an example, I pretty much avoid modding on the sports section based on the fact that it can be perceived that my club loyalties would get in the way of fair judgement. If absolutely necessary I will but out of fairness I have learnt to count to ten over many things that I read. It works much more often that it doesn't.

[andyrich666]

If we reach the point where a list of banned words and phrases has to be maintained then it's probably time for us all to jog on somewhere else.

Similarly on the point of snide modding it ends up being based on one person's opinion against another which can become quite subjective based on differing values. As an example, I pretty much avoid modding on the sports section based on the fact that it can be perceived that my club loyalties would get in the way of fair judgement. If absolutely necessary I will but out of fairness I have learnt to count to ten over many things that I read. It works much more often that it doesn't.

Its not our fault Forest are shit

[birdie]

Instead of this twoing and froing about what words are and are not 'permisable' perhaps people should just consider what THEY may find offensive if said to them, if you wouldn't take kindly to,being called 'a fecking black b*****d' then don't refer to someone else in that manner, same goes for the commonly used words for folk from Pakistan or Ireland, and the use of a word begging with 'c' is really unnecessary but very often appears on the forum. It sometimes seems to me that the use of expletives (I hold my hand up, I've used the 'f' word) is sometimes overdone, all it really needs is for someone to imagine they are talking to a complete stranger and consider if they would use that language.

Sorry, rant over.

[LaaLaa]

...perhaps people should just consider what THEY may find offensive if said to them, if you wouldn't take kindly to,being called 'a fecking black b*****d'...

The thing is some people who aren't black themselves will happily say that they wouldn't mind having those words used against them in order to score a point in a discussion. Someone would have said it in reply to your post if I hadn't said that. Maybe they still will.

I was just thinking that I can't remember the last time I heard the N-word in the media or read it on a forum, except on this one and the lowest form of life that is youtube comments. Oh wait I think the word was used in Peaky Blinders a few weeks ago, depicting someone being racist towards a black person. So context is everything. People insisting they need to use the word need to stop hiding behind freedom of speech and use a bit of common sense instead.

[Carlos J]

Instead of this twoing and froing about what words are and are not 'permisable' perhaps people should just consider what THEY may find offensive if said to them, if you wouldn't take kindly to,being called 'a fecking black b*****d' then don't refer to someone else in that manner, same goes for the commonly used words for folk from Pakistan or Ireland, and the use of a word begging with 'c' is really unnecessary but very often appears on the forum. It sometimes seems to me that the use of expletives (I hold my hand up, I've used the 'f' word) is sometimes overdone, all it really needs is for someone to imagine they are talking to a complete stranger and consider if they would use that language.
Sorry, rant over.

To add my two penn'orth to the modshack whip on posting here. Birdie. Problem is this here bailiwick has a lack of wordmiths. Tis err ol' Pet and err me. Too many happy to go base and low, nay homophone corner here:

phpBB [video]

[...]I don't agree with censorship, so in a rational conversation people should be free to use the word "nigger", such as a reporter on tv saying "he was called a nigger" rather than the ridiculous "he was called the N word".[...]

Quite, Colin. The bastion of the liberal left The Guard is one of the few that will print nigger, Paki, fuck, cunt and bolllocks, great band, without asterisks.

[AlcoholBrazil]

The Pannini stickers named him Pat , whether for PC reasons or not.
The Kelloggs card collection, at children's breakfast tables used his alternative-name.
Was this only available in Ireland ?

[Zambo]

...perhaps people should just consider what THEY may find offensive if said to them, if you wouldn't take kindly to,being called 'a fecking black b*****d'...

The thing is some people who aren't black themselves will happily say that they wouldn't mind having those words used against them in order to score a point in a discussion. Someone would have said it in reply to your post if I hadn't said that. Maybe they still will.

I was just thinking that I can't remember the last time I heard the N-word in the media or read it on a forum, except on this one and the lowest form of life that is youtube comments. Oh wait I think the word was used in Peaky Blinders a few weeks ago, depicting someone being racist towards a black person. So context is everything. People insisting they need to use the word need to stop hiding behind freedom of speech and use a bit of common sense instead.

Exactly. Maybe it will be taken by you better than from me, as you aren't a 'snide mod'

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Those who are saying that it isn't offensive to use skin colour in insults are forgetting one fundamental point, and that is you have no right to say who gets offended and who doesn't.

I personally, have no problems with 'words' and believe the PC sector have gone bonkers and not just on so called 'racist incidents', however who am I to say that a black or Asian person shouldn't feel racially abused by the use of words which are generally accepted has having racial undertones. That is why they are best left out imo.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the reason for using them in the first place.

You've already been told several times on this thread.

It's a descriptor.

In your opinion, others will find it offensive and degrading. Who is right, you or them?

Well if you're insulting someone, they're supposed to find it offensive, that's kind of the point in doing it.

There is a difference between using insulting language and a racial slur. Calling someone a black cunt imo is a racial slur. Hiding behind 'it's a descriptor' doesn't wash, and thankfully it doesn't either with authorities, like the FA who charge players for that sort of language.

That does not automatically mean that the person who insults is a racist, but they shouldn't be surprised when they are called one, because it is viewed as an insult borne on prejudice by many.

It's no different to being called ginger

+1 I totally agree !

It's pretty basic stuff isn't it, you just pick on an aspect of a person that you think is different to you, nothing racist about it at all.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

Instead of this twoing and froing about what words are and are not 'permisable' perhaps people should just consider what THEY may find offensive if said to them, if you wouldn't take kindly to,being called 'a fecking black b*****d' then don't refer to someone else in that manner, same goes for the commonly used words for folk from Pakistan or Ireland, and the use of a word begging with 'c' is really unnecessary but very often appears on the forum. It sometimes seems to me that the use of expletives (I hold my hand up, I've used the 'f' word) is sometimes overdone, all it really needs is for someone to imagine they are talking to a complete stranger and consider if they would use that language.
Sorry, rant over.

To add my two penn'orth to the modshack whip on posting here. Birdie. Problem is this here bailiwick has a lack of wordmiths. Tis err ol' Pet and err me. Too many happy to go base and low, nay homophone corner here:

phpBB [video]

[...]I don't agree with censorship, so in a rational conversation people should be free to use the word "nigger", such as a reporter on tv saying "he was called a nigger" rather than the ridiculous "he was called the N word".[...]

Quite, Colin. The bastion of the liberal left The Guard is one of the few that will print nigger, Paki, fuck, cunt and bolllocks, great band, without asterisks.

And rightly so, we all know what they mean anyway.