TF Chess Club 2, WCC 2014, WCC 2016, WCC 2018 and WCC 2020

[Rainbowmonkey]

Why don't you sign up to chess.com RB and I will teach you how to play. You can sign up instantly with Facebook.

A nice offer Kow thanks but I'm not all that interested in the playing of it. I've stared at games between friends before, mostly in Starbucks when they used to have those chessboard table tops, and got explanations from them but I'm a bit meh to the playing of it. I like the thread and the chat though and the psychology side of it. The slight mystery helps I think.

[Rainbowmonkey]

Here though, not a knock out, but a one to one so yeah psychology comes in. Kasparov often seemed to beat players before a game was started, like you say Taylor does. Thought Anand might crumble after game 2 loss, but won game 3. This bad loss in game 6 is different though, and with Carlsen on white again, if Carlsen wins, goes two points ahead with five to play, can only see one winner.

Interesting, thanks again for your chessposts. I don't suppose there are little non-game tricks that you can pull to put off the opponent in an emergency. The thin line between sportsmanship/cheating. Darts has had it all. From stamping feet to blowing on flights so that they make rustly noises, standing too close, taking too long... Taylor even wore an orange shirt (think Holland) to play Barney in their first world final with 12 gold champion stars streaked down his back to remind him. He then changed his shirt after the 3rd set. there's not much mischief to be made just sitting at a table, I guess.

[Carlos J]

Sorry for late reply, RM, but interesting. Ha at Taylor, a right cunts trick, mark of the man. Going off top of my head as late hour and got two games to watch, but will delve deeper maybe tomorrow.

Of course the first old trick is kicking your opponent under the table. Then we often get into paranoia and hey Bobby Fischer. Sure it was for his game v Spassky in Iceland 1972 he thought the Soviets were up to all sorts of tricks, which will as per look into later. Stuff with seats, there's a big thing about choosing seats,of course you can get up and wander, another old triick, lights and as technology has got better, a whole thing about earpieces and other devices for using computer help.

Then you get into body language and Kasparov a master, though as per, not great at hiding his emotions, but is that double bluff, but a death stare at opponents always amuses:



Saw this when looking at game 6 and the photos are err interesting. Carlsen legs crossed especially: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g6-c ... big-chance

As said, will look further into shenanigans, especially with Fischer.

Anyway, onto game 7 from Monday. And another Ruy Lopez Berlin Defence. Not letting the ladies off early again Vishy and relying on position against Carlsen? But wow. Not a game of all action but 122 move draw in 6.5 hours and a masterclass of defence leading to a Rook and Knight v Rook endgame which is drawn. Love it.

Jerry sounding a bit hoarse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFA3VzFJDKg

GM Daniel King echoes what I typed above before watching him, which is nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fuw_EP87gg

First to 6.5 wins.

Carlsen 4 v 3 Anand.

[Carlos J]

So onwards to yesterdays game 8. When a Jerry video whch is usually 20-30 minutes is only 14 minutes, means either calamity, not likely or an easy draw, more likely and maybe the exertions of Mondays 6.5hrs took toll. Let's see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihM1JhELAZw

Well, not a quick draw, but lots of exchanges, but both reasonably comfortable and a draw.

GM Daniel King. Interesting he talks about how 44yr old Anand seemed less tired after the 122 moves of yesterday than 23yr old Carlsen. Maybe in live footage, pics are only a snapshot: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g8-a ... or-carlsen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6uMEh2XgzU

First to 6.5 wins.

Carlsen 4.5 v 3.5 Anand.

And lo, it is 6am. Good night y'all.

[Carlos J]

Game 9 and this time Jerry video is less than ten minutes. Carlsen with white and a repeat of game 7 Ruy Lopez Berlin. Not this time 122 moves and 6 hours, a mere 20 moves and 1 hour. Jerry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qv6a-Qzi2k

GM Daniel King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgGeBG6hZLU

First to 6.5 wins.

Carlsen 5 v 4 Anand.

Three games to go, Anand has two with white.

[Carlos J]

Game 10 and squeaky bum time. Three games to go, Anand two with white needs a win somewhere to get into the tie breaks. No comment on game, watch videos or scroll down for result.

Jerry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4BnUskMlew

GM Daniel King:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbEffGPmf5w











Draw. First to 6.5.

Carlsen 5.5 v 4.5 Anand.

A win for Carlsen in game 11 on Sunday and all over.

RM. Haven't forgot about more Fischer shenanigans and paranoia. On my weekend to do list.

[Kowalski]

Thanks for posting those videos Carlos, I've watched them all today.

Carlsen is on another level to Anand, he's going to be the champ for a long time.

[Carlos J]

Aww thanks, Kow. Noticed I put Jerry's video up twice for game 10 so amended it and added Danny King's. Was a tad worried when saw your post before watching todays game as possible spoilers but nay.

Anyway, game 11 today. Carlsen with white needing a win to retain his world title and Anand needing a draw or win to take us into a final game with him as white. Ruy Lopez Berlin again and instead of the mega draw of game 7 and the quick draw of game 9 we have action. Watch the videos then scroll down for thoughts.

Jerry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbbFtop70w

GM Daniel King:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjIQoU-96Xw










Interesting game. Looked fairly even then Anand pushes queenside pawns, goes for an exchange sacrifice and we end in a pawn race. But was a tad optimistic as noted afterwards and Kow, kind of moves I would play, shit or bust. But Anand did not need to play it. Danny King's analysis is excellent there.

First to 6.5.

Carlsen 6.5 v 4.5 Anand.

Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion 2014. Presume they'll bring the ceremony forward from scheduled Friday: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g11- ... ains-title



Kow. Carlsen is definitely a beast and sadly for Anand, despite being in contention and coming back from his early loss, seems Carlsen was always in control. And sadly again for Anand, chess is now a young mans game and at 44, doubt he will have a chance again. Love you Vishy.

Though there are some contenders for 2016 (yep, RM, gone back to a two year cycle). Carlsen is 23. World number 2, Fabio Caruana, who beat Carlsen and won one of the strongest ever GM tournaments in the US a couple of months ago is 22. World number 7, Anish Giri is 20, so definitely some contenders and interesting times ahead. Like MvG and the darts comparison, can both now go on a long run of dominance.

Kow. Busy week ahead so no time till next weekend, will PM you, though as you've been watching Carlsen now, will have to up my game or drink more.

RM. Hope you've been following and enjoyed it all, I have. Anyone else reading, as Jerry signs off his videos, "Hope you got something out of it."

[Carlos J]

RM, was re-reading thread and saw this and how the fuck did I miss it first time. When giving history of the chess championship, some spiel about the early years where challenger challenged, mostly putting up lots of coin and then your reply about opening names. Just saw the name in red and answers many points in one reply:

[...]There were players considered the best in the world going back centuries included Ruy Lopez who gave his name to the opening used in game 2 of Carlsen v Anand but it was C19 that things became more organised but not properly. The players below without numbers were considered the best at the time, who beat the best in exhibition games or tournaments.

World Champions pre-FIDE:
Name Year Country
Louis-Charles Mahé de La Bourdonnais 1821–1840 France
Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint-Amant 1840–1843 France
Howard Staunton 1843–1851 England
Adolf Anderssen 1851–1858 1862–1866 Prussia
Paul Morphy 1858–1862 United States
1. Wilhelm Steinitz 1886–1894 Austria-Hungary England United States
2. Emanuel Lasker 1894–1921 Germany
3. José Raúl Capablanca 1921–1927 Cuba
4. Alexander Alekhine 1927–1935 1937–1946 Russia France
5. Max Euwe 1935–1937 Netherlands

[...]

A handsome write-up, thanks and nice work Carlos. Just a quick first thought occurred, re 'Ruy Lopez who gave his name to the opening used in game 2...'

I was thinking about Darts as a comparison, I'm well into the overlap by the way, regarding scores/sequences of scores/checkouts which when they occur trigger an almost automatic reference by commentators to a yesteryear player who produced the particular shot in famous circumstances.

All I can think of is Deller's 138. Just about every single time that someone steps up to check out 138, they mention Deller, who did it to beat Bristow in the World final about 30 years ago, with Bristow having so cockily turned down the Bull. A kind of signature shot associated with a particular player. I've never thought about it before but you'd think there'd be more. Not even Taylor would seem to hold historical ownership of a particular checkout. I have my own personal ones (Barney 97, Part 77, Harrington 125) but those don't really resonate beyond my own head.

Does Chess have lots of moves/strategies which are named after players who made them their signature? I imagine that it does for some reason. I guess 'the Cruyff turn' would be the most obvious example of this in football.

Howard Staunton answers that and other points far better than I did in posts. A few minutes Mr Wiki reading for you but hopefully not onerous and err quite interesting.

As per list Staunton beat Saint-Amant, already politics going on there and look at how he is judged in hindsight from Kasparov to Fisher to good old Bill Hartson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Staunton

Then as also mentioned, child prodigy Paul Morphy, sadly gave up and died young, wanted to play the socalled de facto champ Staunton. All sorts of bother getting it sorted or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staunton%E ... ontroversy

Finally and re: openings/names, Staunton has the English as per the game with Saint Amant, there is also a Staunton gambit, but get them to fuck, how much better can you get than having the standard chess pieces named after you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staunton_chess_set

Still a bit of a cunt of a man but a good legacy.

Have not forgot Fischer detail, will be later though.

[Rainbowmonkey]

*kicks Carlos under the table*

RM. Hope you've been following and enjoyed it all, I have. Anyone else reading, as Jerry signs off his videos, "Hope you got something out of it."

Indeed I have, most refreshing. I knew NOTHING. Thanks for making it resonate. Well done also to M(v)C, it did just seem to be sliding that way. But some of his body language behind that link you posted looked awful! The one you mentioned was the least concerning, this is his 'typical posture' apparently:



It seems such a natural behaviour though, wriggling with tension, kind of physically shaking it off. He lets it all hang out, again like our green darts hero. I like it. Anand is more of a John Lowe, stonefaced. Many many ways to skin the cat I guess and too much can easily be read into such things and I'm probably making caricatures here anyway.

The top end of the game, as you describe it, seems to echo the top end of darts. Take out Taylor, as I wish someone would, and the last 2/4/8 of the majors are regularly dominated by people in their 20s and early 30s. It's a very recent development. MvG does have an equal in that pack, ability-wise, in Lewis... is this Caruana fellow able to match Carlsen on a regular basis I wonder? I guess it's too early to say. One person crushing everyone else for years is fascinating in its own way but it's not ideal, in my opinion anyway.

How likely is it that a new unknown person will emerge onto the scene suddenly who is say, Anand's age? I suppose it's not physically demanding so there's no reason why you can't pick up the craft later in life and discover that you're a genius at it. The 54 year-old Taylor crushed the 'concentration' argument a long time ago, but Chess does seem more mentally intense and demanding than darts.

There are several layers of interest here, I wonder if ITV4 or shudder Eurosport should consider giving it a go one time. Even Barry Hearn. they would need nicknames of course. I'm claiming The Chin for the champ. Sky shows fishing ffs... Challenge TV or something... it must hold onto its soul, though.

Also, then I'll go, do you think you could beat Magnus in a one-off game? What's the skill level here? If you played him 100 times...? *chess*

[Carlos J]

Fascinating post and many interesting questions, RM, and glad you enjoyed the games. Interesting about the body language and that picture was only a snapshot, probably only sat like that for a couple of minutes. 90% of chess photos are players, head in hand looking down at the board. Without seeing live footage hard to call, which relates to your TV comments, see later, but definitely something to look into.

Yep, top end of the game seems similar to darts and probably snooker, maybe less so to tennis. In regular tournaments, probably quite a few can win, but as said, chess tournaments are mostly round robins, so a few different factors. But get to the big one, a WC final, like in arrars, that was Taylor's stage and a new player in a final had to overcome that, and nerves and then play well enough to win.

So if Caruana wins the next Candidates' and plays Carlsen in 2016, he will be green on a long one on one game, Carlsen been there, done it twice. Must be advantageous for the incumbent. So yeah, whilst Carlsen winning for years could happen and would be fine, decent competition is what people want. Carlsen, Caruana and Giri could be playing each other for years, then add in newcomers. Plus, like MvG, ultimate thing is the players desire, off game life, etc.

Fascinating about an unknown coming through, say at Anand's age (44). Suppose could happen, but a player would have to get ratings which means playing tournaments, then people would get to know him, how he plays and would probably take a few years to do that.

Most top players now were child prodigies, became Grandmasters in their teens, whereras before you had GMs still playing top level in the 50s+, unlikely to happen now, as you said with mental intensity and less so physical. That draw of 6 hours would be pretty hard going.

Interesting, hypothetically, if someone learns to play v computers, gets to a top level and then comes on the scene v players. But computers play differently to humans and again, the players games will get noticed and analysed etc. Could theoretically happen but unlikely.

Now back to TV. Yes, agree, was pissed off no TV cmpany took it up here, was in other places, an hour a night with analysis would cost fuck all and probably get some ratings, but no one bothered. Remember, as per, when Short played Kasparov, was in London but live coverage on C4 with Vorderman, Raymond Keene and Danny King, plus BBC had a highlights show and it did good ratings. Glory days. But then you need to ride the wave and that didn't happen. No British challengers doesn't help. Sure if a GB player was in the final would definitely get on TV but that's not going to happen soon. You can have The Chin though, not sure he would be keen.

Classical chess is one thing for TV, but sure rapidplay or Blitz chess can be quite entertaining. Been to a couple of events, you have headphones and comms and it's just (no pun) bish bash and over, good fun. This is interesting, with Anand playing, hope you enjoy it, a decider, so white has a minute more time, but has to win. Young Anand as black just needs a draw to win. Old Danny King on comms and a yank who I've heard before and gets excitable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUr_gdKQ8j4

Ha, about me v Carlsen. In 100 games he would win them all. When I used to play in tourneys had a reasonable rating. Here we go more deviation. British Chess under the old BCF now English Chess Federation had, typically, their own grading system different to the ELO used everywhere else. So a rating of 100+ was fair, 150+ good and 200+ master level. Remember I mentioned tournaments and they had elite, minor and majors. Minors usually up to 120, majors up to 180 and elite above, something like that.

Like in golf and sandbaggers/handicap hustlers, you do get people skewing their gradings to enter lower tournaments and win cash. I started in minors, won some cash and obviously rating went up, so entered majors and did less well and rating went down, not low enough to play back in minors but people do it and if played now would be classed as ungraded and could enter a minor and probably do well. My highest grading was BCF 153, doubt could get near that now which translates to ELO about 1847. Carlsen is 2863, light years ahead.

To show how bad things are, on chess.com, mostly play speed chess, 10 mins each and am way too reckless as Kow will tell you, like attacking, plus many games played after drink has been taken against yanks at stupid o'clock. So speed chess grading has veered between 700 and 1200 or so, not good, but as said, who cares and always fun taking out someone who thinks you know nothing. Plus there's the err sledging on the chat part till you get reported and it taken away.

They have under 1200 speed tournaments and you play 6 games, straight after each other randomly, though if winning play similar players later. Sometimes had 0/6 and did once come 4th, just out of the medals, but hey.

Mine and Kow's games are fun, mostly best of 3, and most come down to time, but fair to the man, he has the upper hand.

Anyway, back to me v Carlsen, so if miraculously got to an endgame fairly even say by trading, his endgame knowledge and postional awareness would blow me away.

Dear old Vishy, good sport he is, has twice on chess.com played Anand v the world against thousands. World players have 3 minutes per move and most popular move is played. First game in 2012 was a draw by repetition, last year signed up but the games was fucked off by server problems. Hope Carlsen does one. Err, well done for reading.

[Kowalski]

Also, then I'll go, do you think you could beat Magnus in a one-off game? What's the skill level here? If you played him 100 times...? *chess*

Like Carlos has said RM, there is no chance either of us would beat Magnus even if we played him a 1000 times. Chess is pure skill, there is no luck involved and even if he did make a mistake we are not good enough to take advantage of it.

About TV coverage, it's sad really that there is none, but that is what the internet is for, It's no great loss really.

[Rainbowmonkey]

He's probably got a kid by now. and it's world champion.

Yep, top end of the game seems similar to darts and probably snooker, maybe less so to tennis. In regular tournaments, probably quite a few can win, but as said, chess tournaments are mostly round robins, so a few different factors. But get to the big one, a WC final, like in arrars, that was Taylor's stage and a new player in a final had to overcome that, and nerves and then play well enough to win.

I'd been watching Taylor for years and had never seen him lose, till John Part finally got him in January 2003, my favourite match. To say that the WC back in those days was "Taylor's stage" is more than true. His stage, your tomb. Opponents looked sick during their walk-ons and you're right - if they possessed the ability to beat such a figure, that was only one part of the deal - they still wouldn't.

Since the event moved to Ally Pally, there have been 8 crownings, and Taylor has won 'only' 3 of them. It has just felt different ever since the move. The cramped and claustrophic previous venue (Circus Tavern) had become part of his actual weaponry I believe. His legend outsized the room. As Sid put it: "Taylor looms over proceedings like Dracula over Trannsylvania." Does chess have its legendary venues, or is a room a room? Some competitors just seem to produce their best at particular venues, for whatever reason.

Interesting thing about John Part, chess has its equivalents, is that he had been savaged by Taylor in the 2001 final, 0-7, and 0-6 in the semis the year before, also up and down the globe for years. Increasingly popular phrase nowadays for what Part would traditionally have acquired is "scar tissue," but unlike all the other players, for Part it never seemed to cause lasting damage. He swaggered onto the stage in 2003, his arms literally swinging as he moved. That took some doing. And he's not a thicko! Far from it.

It's only by hearing Part in commentary in the years since that you come to realise the toughness of the man. He'd probably be good at chess and I believe he is some kind of poker genius. He talks about the mental side in a very practical way: yes it's horrible, but it's also masterable. Compare to Mason... who still sounds traumatised by every quarter of a detail. Part himself compared having to stand there, behind Taylor, waiting for him to hit the double, as he misses with his first dart - "you know it's coming, it's maddening" - misses with his second dart - "it's like Chinese drip torture" - Thud, 'Game Shot and The First Set, Phil Taylor.' Some people just cannot handle it.

Losing 1-9 to Taylor at the 2013 Masters, you can lip-read Wade asking the referee if he can 'go off.' Dear Widey's a troubled soul, but countless others have been made to feel the same. Chess player ever stormed off? who is the Chris Mason of chess? The one who knew exactly what he could do but couldn't do it?

There's a question. IMO Taylor misses on purpose to precision engineer maximum mental pain for his opponent. Would a chess person make a 'bad' move on purpose? Maybe lure the opponent into a false sense of hope... can you play the game in your opponent's head, as Taylor boasts that he does? Maybe at the highest level this would all be a bit risky. Margins far too narrow to muck about? Thing was that the difference between Taylor and 2nd best in darts was normally a lightyear, so he could toy as he pleased. Do people, like Taylor, draaaag out a move to make the opponent wait and suffer? Mean stuff really, it seems almost unhealthy, but Phil Taylor has been behaving like a banned horror film for 25 years and there is much to revolt and learn.

[Rainbowmonkey]

I'm sure I remember Sid saying that John Part plays poker and chess on the internet. I can't find anything online sadly. The extreme *Wenger* "mental strenffth" that he demonstrates in darts would seem to be a very handy transferable skill for both of those pursuits.

What with his Star Wars motif, I sense geek.

[carcinogen]

Watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sWuhpsG2aU

[Rainbowmonkey]

Interesting, hypothetically, if someone learns to play v computers, gets to a top level and then comes on the scene v players. But computers play differently to humans and again, the players games will get noticed and analysed etc.

This was intriguing in itself. There are computer programmes for darts, Mason was tweeting about one, where you somehow key into it the level you want your computer opponent to play at, maybe you pre-set their average score or whatever.

It would be interesting, if unethical , to somehow cultivate players who learn their game exclusively through computer-based competition. In chess, would you end up with robot-type players who are primarily skilled at out-thinking computers - what if you had a real-life tournament full of such people? Would it look odd/different? It's a sci-fi concept where war is waged by two computers, each of which becomes so knowing of itself and the other that the battle just grinds to a halt... is that what it would be like? Maybe I'm talking pants.

Perhaps a trained eye can spot the extent/ratio to which a player has honed their skills by playing against humans/computers/different types of humans. In the same way that certain football skills are identifiable as having been developed on sand, or the idea that English footballers' hoofing habits are caused by their having played on full-size pitches as kids. Imagine the Saggers "angle" - TOO MUCH TIME IN HIS BEDROOM, NOT ENOUGH TIME PLAYING REAL PEOPLE AT REAL CHESS IN THE REAL WORLD, STAN!!

Could you unleash a computer which would be guaranteed to win the World Championship every time? I doubt that, but you could do it in darts. Just have it score a 9-darter every leg, although in theory a human could match that I suppose. Chess Robot Wars, now then...

From a slightly different angle, in darts, the difference between being able to beat some software averaging 102 in your bedroom and actually stepping onto a TV stage to face an angry Taylor... it's very limited preparation, of course. You need to be able to do it against humans, although, as Barney once said of Taylor: 'Tonight I played a computer on Level One.' How do you overcome a human computer? You don't, really...

[Carlos J]

"Pawn Sacrifice". Coming to a cinema near you soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htFP3Lm8vSQ

One tends it will be US v USSR, but what of Bobby later, fleeing the the world (US) Bobby playing on the run is great. A genius, but a total cunt.

A true legend, Bobby Fischer.

[Carlos J]

Talking about who will /can take over from Magnus Carlsen:

Though there are some contenders for 2016 (yep, RM, gone back to a two year cycle). Carlsen is 23. World number 2, Fabio Caruana, who beat Carlsen and won one of the strongest ever GM tournaments in the US a couple of months ago is 22. World number 7, Anish Giri is 20, so definitely some contenders and interesting times ahead. Like MvG and the darts comparison, can both now go on a long run of dominance.[...]

An interesting article on chess.com: http://www.chess.com/article/view/who-w ... us-carlsen

Wei Yi is only 16 and 24 in the world. Possibly. Maybe. Not for a few years and one hopes unlike many he does not be hothoused and out early.

[Rainbowmonkey]

Talking about who will /can take over from Magnus Carlsen:

Though there are some contenders for 2016 (yep, RM, gone back to a two year cycle). Carlsen is 23. World number 2, Fabio Caruana, who beat Carlsen and won one of the strongest ever GM tournaments in the US a couple of months ago is 22. World number 7, Anish Giri is 20, so definitely some contenders and interesting times ahead. Like MvG and the darts comparison, can both now go on a long run of dominance.[...]

An interesting article on chess.com: http://www.chess.com/article/view/who-w ... us-carlsen

Wei Yi is only 16 and 24 in the world. Possibly. Maybe. Not for a few years and one hopes unlike many he does not be hothoused and out early.

Where's he sprung from then? You post this CJ at a very suitable time. It was the PDC World Youth Championship today, top 64 playing down to the final which you might catch on ITV4 next month bundled into one of those comps they're showing. Massively highly rated German kid Max Hopp made the final, which is fantastic news for pro darts expansion in Germany.

It seems staggering that anyone should be asking "So who will succeed Magnus?" I've only just got to know him yet could the scrapheap beckon? it reminds me of something I can't put my finger on - is it battery farming? Top end chess sounds like quite the anxiety environment for people so young and getting more extreme all the time. Parents beware? But, I guess it's always interesting and just fun to keep an eye on talent - The Source. The writer is predicting that Wei Yi will be world champ while more or less still a teenager... ffs. how much younger can this possibly go?

I liked the quite emotive/flamboyant descriptions of his game moves in the pictures. Still over my head unfortunately but I like that.

The comments at the foot of the page are unusually interesting and not about Adolf Hitler (5 pages, I've only read the first one). Good old chess fans. Got a bit van Gerwenny here for me from stranger "DjonniDerevnja" who says interesting things across two quite excitable posts. Some Norwegian guy who runs a chess club. Is he a known person?

I like his point 4 and 5 below re MvG. Things constantly spoken about, see fucking Talksport, yet rarely genuinely exist in a person. Point 6 is not quite applicable beyond chess maybe, but it has a ring to it. Most importantly, point 7. Simple and beautiful, and I've come to conclude that this is a huge % of what sets these guys apart from other super-talents; it is MvG v Lewis (now criminally ranked #6 in the world) in a nutshell:

Magnus has at least 7 talents on worldclasslevel.

1. Memory
2. Positional understanding
3. Tactical power
4. Stamina, he can be under, but fights back and gets on top.
5. Competitive instinct. He wants really hard to win. Every time.
6. Speed. He is so incredibly fast that he can allow himself to use enough time where it is necessary and survive the timetrouble after that. World champion in blitz and rapid, that is speedy.
7. He loves chess.

...probably all those young darts players today would claim 4, 5 and 7. Most, I suspect, would be lying. At 16 MvG would not have been lying. Let's cut them open and find out who means it. It is fascinating trying to work out from so little evidence which of these guys will 'train on'... so many are so good but most will vanish. It can't be as simple as 'oh he loves it'. What is the formula?

One niggling thing - do you know why one of the commenters at the bottom says "ignore chinese talents"?

[Carlos J]

Great post, RM and will reply, hopefully this err morning. Only read the first page of comments as well.

[Carlos J]

Ha. Read all the comments now and, RM, not all chess commenters are nicely, nicely. More than a few comments deleted, but the post on page 4 from 'pawnDillinger' very interesting as notes Fischer and mental issues there. Probably named after John Dillinger of his fame, but reminded of the Dillinger song, always confused as coke and a bit of reggae, eh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xVp1mauGnU

"Sensimilla is the king, it does the right thing, peace and contentment it always bring and I like. Acid and speed are things we not need, I don't like. Cocaine in the brain makes me feel insane, I don't like", said some dub man from a great song which I can't remember and cannot find on the whole of the internet. A great song, noble sentiments but somewhat wrong. A cyber £20 for any name of the song.

Anyway. no idea where he has come from, RM, as don't follow much now. Get emails from chess.com, usually delete but that one made me read. Grandmaster at 13, 24 in the world now. Obviously very talented, but unlike GM Serper's article, he will not be world champion next cycle, possible not the next and not world champion in his teens. I will stake ten of my hard earned English pounds on that, and you know, RM, that I am not a big gambler.

Sergey Karjakin is the youngest ever Grandmaster, at 12yrs and 7 months in 2002. Now 13 years later, he is 25, ranked 11 in the world, but no chance of challenging and also on his second marriage. His peak rating was July 2011.

Giri and Caruana, 5 and 6 in the rankings, and as per younger than Carlsen, still seem best challengers.

But back to the comments and have no idea who the club man is. But the list is great, but as per many times, Carlsen can win and win if he wants as long as he wants. If the love of the game is there, you will do the work of study, which GMs have to do. As the post from 'pawnDillinger' notes about Bobby Fischer and Carlsen and his attitude, and I've noted before, and again comparable to MvG, is the attiude there?

You're world champion, some see this as the zenith, of course it is and content, but legends, see it as a stepping stone and practice, practice, practice, to stay ahead of all wanting to wipe you out.

Taylor did this, MvG does this, like you mention of point 7 about 'loving darts' and Carlsen does. But all outside influences, same in both games are there for young men top of their game.

For both I think and hope, that they realise, titles come and go, legacy is everything.

As you said, reading the games on his post is intriguing, even if not following, even the socalled immortal game of C21. I can follow for most moves, you have a board in your head or on the screen and follow it, but a few moves down and any head board gets messy. And a hey for blindfold chess. As per, still completely mental but fantastic to watch.

{...]One niggling thing - do you know why one of the commenters at the bottom says "ignore chinese talents"?

No idea about that comment, but a few Chinese male prodigies have come and gone. Their females have been world champions though. Xie Jun, Zhu Chen and Hou Yifan.

One also very interesting read is Gata Kansky, Russian prodigy, tipped as a world champion, did not happen and took years out, before coming back to the game. Like TF, they always come back. Mr Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gata_Kamsky

I've only just got to know him yet could the scrapheap beckon? it reminds me of something I can't put my finger on - is it battery farming? Top end chess sounds like quite the anxiety environment for people so young and getting more extreme all the time. Parents beware?[...]

Hothousing, as noted earlier hopefully not happening for Wei Yi.

As per many, many posts, and think I mentioned them in a darts crossover post, see the Polgár sisters and especially the most successful, Judit: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/30/world ... it-polgar/

All sisters seem fairly stable. And a nice photo of Judit. Hey, chess babes, back to old threads and some stunners there. Old Harriet Hunt propping up the UK side is a nice looking young lady, remember seeing her at Nottm tourneys:


But hey, this is not a look at lasses thread, but in honour of the old thread and its services to chess. Oh my lord. Mariam Mansur



Dear Sonia Zepada:



And former world champion Alexandra Kosteniuk has her own site: http://www.kosteniuk.com/

Gone off topic a tad, but hey.

[Rainbowmonkey]

Lovely, your best chess post to date IMO

[Carlos J]

Aww shucks, RM. Wasn't going to reply today but was on youtube and this was on my recommended to view and had to post and might as well add a tad more about ratings stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxc5ZqSQ9C8

That video is quite amazing, please watch all, RM, and any other viewers interested. Before getting to the actual game, some sort of background.

So this is the World Blitz Chess Championship 2014 last June in Dubai. Just a few months before Carlsen and Anand played for the world title in classical chess, the world title.

Ha, it is like any tourney around the world, in some big hall, lots of games, shitty chairs, casual clothes, Carlsen with his bottlle of drink on the table, but these and the others are the best Grandmasters in the world. Score people walking around, though not usually in a thawb and keffiyeh.

Another difference is the boards. They have the lovely wooden board, have a cheaper version, similar to this: http://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-cla ... mcampid=73

But in your average tourney, you play on plastic boards and plastic pieces similar to this: http://shop.chess.co.uk/Plastic-Gambit- ... b04257.htm

Anyway, to the game. As per, only a few months before the played in the proper world championship. The commentator, whomever he is, is fantastic. He calls some moves right, but others of his analysis is way off. Many amusing comments on the youtube, this is my favourite as noted in the comments. Anand was slowly moving his King round. Superb:

Renji Mao 4 months ago
19:09 King coming... like train on time...

XD THAT WAS HILARIOUS

Carlsen's blunder was about 3 mins in, almost a schoolboy error and you see emotion and "I've fucked up" from him. A winning position to giving Vishy a chance, which only class players could finish.

Anyway, regardless of that, Carlsen did actually win the tourney. Table here: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84260

Some photos here, and you can see, unlike the weekend tourney, there are cameras present. Also, some of Judit Polgár as per previous post. Sadly she looks to have a bit of a double chin, but still lovely: https://www.fide.com/component/content/ ... -2014.html

That's that then. And lo, after noticing some queerness in rankings of Caruana and Giri from my post last year to yesterday. Carauna from 2nd to 6th, Giri from 7th to 5th, some extreme sadness so thought to examine at the ratings properly.

FIDE top 100 October ratings are here: https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men

Old school. Vishy is still 4 at 45. Kramnik, once a socalled follower of Karpov and Kasparov, yes a world champion, still to me a queer fella, probably never gets the recognition he deserves, is 9 at 40. And fuck me, Michael Adams is 17th in the world at 43.

As per my posts about the legacy of Short v Kasparov on British chess, the next man was Adams. A queer Cornish sort, but around the turn of the millennium he was a contender. Never quite made elite level and quite amazed his ranking is still so high.

Which reminds me of another socalled British prodigy, Luke McShane, now 31: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_McShane World Under 10 champ at 8, here is him playing err Kasparov at aged 11: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1361813
Old Nigel Short is still at 65.

Topalov is interesting, won the split FIDE title as per in 2005. Now 40 but still at number 3 in the world. We talked about kicking under the table, read him v Kramnik in 2006 for some shenanigans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Che ... nship_2006

See also young prodigies like Peter Leko, currently 39 in the world.

Let's go young guys. Liren Ding, also from China, is younger than Carlsen at 22 and at 8. He was a Grandmaster at though at 17. Nakamura, three years older than Carlsen is world no. 2.

Out of the top 10 listed. Anand, Aronian, Kramnik and Grischuk have had their day and will do well in candidates games, Topalov too, but hey, one of the young guys will play Carlsen, hopefully, maybe.

Aha. Just seen this: Here's the candidates list. Nakamura and Caruana and Vishy already there.

Nakamuru, No. 2 is three years older than Carlsen. Candidates 2016 info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Che ... nship_2016 It will be quite fascintaing come the candidates tourney next March.

[Carlos J]

RM. As per my post Tuesday early hours and some chess girls. Mentioned former Womens World Champion and her website, Alexandra Kosteniuk, and some interesting photos: http://www.kosteniuk.com/ Don't think on the Kosteniuk site, but an old favourite here. Fuck Hurley and that dress, this is the dress:

[Lou Grant]

The first of these songs wonderful - but neither is the song mentioned above:

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

Way in my brain, no cocaine
I don't wanna, I don't wanna go insane

And now, back to the chess:

phpBB [video]