TF Chess Club 2, WCC 2014, WCC 2016, WCC 2018 and WCC 2020

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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

Post by ovechkin8 »

Kowalski wrote:Can I join too please.

Sorry I'm late, don't usually venture into open chat.
You are already in the list above Kowalski. :)

For those entrants you can begin practicing. I'll send a PM advising on how we will go about organizing the round robin on chess.com.

I have extended the deadline without telling anyone to the end of the World Cup. And try and get a few more recalcitrant players involved. 8)
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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

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Well fuck me you're right.

:oops: :oops:

Sorry it must be the meds.

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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

Post by ovechkin8 »

Kowalski wrote:Well fuck me you're right.

:oops: :oops:

Sorry it must be the meds.
Don't worry mate. :) Just dig out those books on opening theory as soon as you can. :wink:
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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

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I won't be playing.
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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

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DasBoot wrote:I won't be playing.
Why not ? :(
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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

Post by Kowalski »

So, when will this be starting?

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Re: Talkforum Chess Tournament

Post by Carlos J »

Old Ovechkin ain't coming back. Last here world cup. :( Sad news but hey we can rebuild this thread.

Kow I know, other players who are still interested, put your name up. Chess.com. We'll get tourney by December. :)

Most interesting as did not realise this until reading tonight. Down in Sochi. Young world champion, err not a model, a got big jaw Di Caprio type IMO. Carlsen v my old dear Vishy Anand in a rematch from last time. Dear Vishy, seen few times, love his rapidplay, but nay can do this. Some views: http://uk.businessinsider.com/heres-wha ... 14-11?r=US Here's hopeful but easy Carlsen IMO.

From 12pm GMT with the excellent Jerry comms on his link and later analysis. Fuck, Jerry, top, top man: 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7-2YCaSX9Y

Game review after always interesting.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Renamed thread for World Championship and will post vids from the Sochi fun. Game 1 and 5 hours plus for a 48 move draw. Vishy looked promising but held then under pressure but held himself. Gonna need to turn pressure to wins to have a chance. Jerry analysis always amusing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqrrq04arXs

More analysis here from GM Daniel King. Nice chap, remember him from C4 coverage of Kasparov v Short, gone a bit grey now. That when old Vorderman presented with friend of H&J Raymond Keene as well. Nay Bill Hartson, chess tutor on TV of many children, now to be found on TV on 'Gogglebox' under a picture of a pair of tits. Anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tX7G4mJjpY

Carlsen 0.5 v 0.5 Anand. First to 6.5.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Game 2 and my favourite (Kow and I often play, as do most amateur players) Ruy Lopez. Anand (black) putting Bishop queenside for the diagonal against whites kingside attack.

Quite intriguing, white coming out middle game positionally ahead, then with time factor crushing Anand (6 moves to go before control in 3 odd minutes) does pawn h5, Carlsen replies Qb7 and Anand resigns. :(

Major blunder but can be forgiven for time trouble and as old Nigel Short says. "Blunders don't happen in a vacuum. 34...h5?? came after enormous sustained pressure."

Day of rest tomorrow, but doubt with all the psychological pressure on him, Anand can come back.

Jerry does great as always analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqIUDLQYR08

And GM Daniel King's shorter version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYtIcVY7mLc

After game 2, first to 6.5:

Carlsen 1.5 v 0.5 Anand
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Rainbowmonkey »

This looks absolootely awesome but tragically, but for our chat before which majored on transferrable aspects like talent, personality and attitude, I know nuffin. The technical stuff goes way over my head because ahve nivver plaird the gairm. :( can we have a schedule, maybe a list of previous world champions?

Oh so is it like snooker, where a match is spread over sessions over a few days?
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Good idea, RM. Will add some detail and background later. :)
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

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Here we go brief summary of this years tournament. Details from Mr Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ches ... nship_2014 has background to the Candidates tourney which Anand (challenger) won.

Schedule is best of 12 games, first to 6.5 wins. If 6-6 there will be four rapid play games, then if needed up to five blitz games of two games, then a sudden death match if needed

Time:
The time control for the "classical" portion of the match is: 120 minutes for the first 40 moves, 60 minutes for the next 20 moves and then 15 minutes for the rest of the game with an increment of 30 seconds per move starting after move 61 has been made
Hence rest days and as above, game 1 lasted over 5 hours. Schedule:
7 November 2014 Friday Opening ceremony
8 November 2014 Saturday Game 1
9 November 2014 Sunday Game 2
10 November 2014 Monday Rest day
11 November 2014 Tuesday Game 3
12 November 2014 Wednesday Game 4
13 November 2014 Thursday Rest day
14 November 2014 Friday Game 5
15 November 2014 Saturday Game 6
16 November 2014 Sunday Rest day
17 November 2014 Monday Game 7
18 November 2014 Tuesday Game 8
19 November 2014 Wednesday Rest day
20 November 2014 Thursday Game 9
21 November 2014 Friday Game 10
22 November 2014 Saturday Rest day
23 November 2014 Sunday Game 11
24 November 2014 Monday Rest day
25 November 2014 Tuesday Game 12
26 November 2014 Wednesday Rest day
27 November 2014 Thursday Tie-break games
28 November 2014 Friday Awards and closing
Prize fund of €1M split 60-40 to the winner. Nice.

Will add, RM, some background history of champions including the FIDE/PCA split which one I compared to BDO/PDC one, tomorrow as will take a bit of time to knock up and as I was a day behind, going to watch game 3 anaylsis now. :)
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Rainbowmonkey »

Ahhh excellent stuff, thank you Carlos. An epic and mysterious looking feast. I assumed there would be 16 or 8 players involved in a finals stage, but I see. A previously held Candidates' Tournament provides a Challenger to the reigning champion. I imagined that a match would just be one game of chess. :oops: it's actually more like a 2-man Ryder Cup.

What state will they be in if it goes the full 3 weeks? :shock: their all-round preparation must be meticulous, which is possibly where the darts analogy begins to break down, ahem, the state Lewis turned up in this week, distracted and wobbling, although, that said, some of them take it all very seriously, some like Paul Nicholson perhaps too seriously.

If, say, Carlsen keeps on retaining his title, could he theoretically win it every year for the rest of his life, or would he be told to move along at some point and give someone else a go?
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Game 3 and yay, a Vishy win on white. Intriguing game with a passed pawn causing all sorts of trouble for Carlsen.

Jerry analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AOvrqCSzsA

GM Daniel King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_iamolOaUg

After 3 games, first to 6.5.

Carlsen 1.5 v 1.5 Anand.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Rainbowmonkey HD wrote:Ahhh excellent stuff, thank you Carlos. An epic and mysterious looking feast. I assumed there would be 16 or 8 players involved in a finals stage, but I see. A previously held Candidates' Tournament provides a Challenger to the reigning champion. I imagined that a match would just be one game of chess. :oops: it's actually more like a 2-man Ryder Cup.

What state will they be in if it goes the full 3 weeks? :shock: their all-round preparation must be meticulous, which is possibly where the darts analogy begins to break down, ahem, the state Lewis turned up in this week, distracted and wobbling, although, that said, some of them take it all very seriously, some like Paul Nicholson perhaps too seriously.

If, say, Carlsen keeps on retaining his title, could he theoretically win it every year for the rest of his life, or would he be told to move along at some point and give someone else a go?
No worries, RM and will reply more in depth tomorrow as got an early start. :( But briefly yeah, it is an endurance thing, classical chess is and their prep is meticulous, they have seconds and go through thousands of games, tis the problem for any keen amateur, once you get to a reasonable level you have to study; openings, middle games and endgames and is a lot of work, and have not the time or patience. Watch the Danny King vid on game 3, he comments that Anand had been through most of the game and variations in his prep. :shock:

Cycle of world championships used to be three yearly with zonals, interzonals and candidates tournaments to see who would play the champion. Think they have gone to a two yearly cycle now, but was one last year. FIDE is a bit of a FIFA and does its own thing, hence splits before. But yeah, Carlsen can be world champ till he gets beat. And he is young, there are a couple of others out there who could challenge, but Karpov and Kasparov were champions for years and pre-war before properly organise some even longer. That and others will commment on tomorrow.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

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Remember the old quip "My opponent is Short and the games will be short" .
First time I heard sledging in chess.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

RM. A very potted history of the chess world championship for you, with as per our old conversation, a bit of darts comparison which I see, maybe others think bollocks. :) Taken from my own knowledge and for some checking detail, here: http://www.chessgames.com/wcc.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship But you know I don't do truncated well, so just a bit long. :)

There were players considered the best in the world going back centuries included Ruy Lopez who gave his name to the opening used in game 2 of Carlsen v Anand but it was C19 that things became more organised but not properly. The players below without numbers were considered the best at the time, who beat the best in exhibition games or tournaments.

Steinitz is considered the first 'proper' world champion after beating Anderssen in 1886. Lasker's reign looks good but contained years of not playing. At the time the challenger had to raise funds to challenge the champion who could set favourable conditions for himself and meant only those with big backers got a chance. Capablanca probably could have won earlier but for this. Some order and 'London Rules' got things sorted a bit.

Of those of interest in the list, Capablanca was a great player, bit of a showman and celeb of the time. Morphy was a child prodigy but a bit sad, retired early and died young. There is a Max Euwe Plein in Amsterdam where have been. :)
World Champions pre-FIDE:
Name Year Country
Louis-Charles Mahé de La Bourdonnais 1821–1840 France
Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint-Amant 1840–1843 France
Howard Staunton 1843–1851 England
Adolf Anderssen 1851–1858 1862–1866 Prussia
Paul Morphy 1858–1862 United States
1. Wilhelm Steinitz 1886–1894 Austria-Hungary England United States
2. Emanuel Lasker 1894–1921 Germany
3. José Raúl Capablanca 1921–1927 Cuba
4. Alexander Alekhine 1927–1935 1937–1946 Russia France
5. Max Euwe 1935–1937 Netherlands
So post WW2 and Alekhine's death meant the loss of a linear champion, FIDE then started to arrange something more formalised. A tournament of the best players was arranged and Botvinik won.

Then the WC was in three yearly cycles with zonals, interzonals and candidates tournaments to decide who played the champ. Note the Soviet domination during this time. Tal was a legend and great drinker. Then lo we have Bobby Fischer.

Cold war at it's height. One crazy fucked up man, so much written and spoken about him. Always fighting against the man, the Soviets, later fugitive and general cunt but his genius cannot be denied and one of the best players ever. Documentary here about him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJjrYKOWMRQ

And one specifically about the Spassky match in Reykjavik, 1972. Both are excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwLM9bgE3tY

But because of more problems with the man, he foreited his defence and Karpov took the title.

So onto the bit I related to the arrars. Karpov, dour, was the Soviet man. Onto the scene comes a wildman, the Beast of Baku, Gary Kasparov and despite some socalled shenanigans, they played against each other five times. The bright young thing destroying all and playing the best ever chess. Think there was a comparison to Bristow taking over.
FIDE world champions 1948–1993:
Name Year Country
6. Mikhail Botvinnik 1948–1957 1958–1960 1961–1963 Soviet Union (Russia)
7. Vasily Smyslov 1957–1958 Soviet Union (Russia)
8. Mikhail Tal 1960–1961 Soviet Union (Latvia)
9. Tigran Petrosian 1963–1969 Soviet Union (Armenia)
10. Boris Spassky 1969–1972 Soviet Union (Russia)
11. Robert J. Fischer 1972–1975 United States
12. Anatoly Karpov 1975–1985 Soviet Union (Russia)
13. Garry Kasparov 1985–1993 Soviet Union (Russia) Russia
So Kasparov was champion and on we go to split. 1993 and Britain's Nigel Short had won the candidates to challenge Kasparov. FIDE announced it was to be played in Manchester and Short and Kasparov, unhappy at not being included broke and formed the PCA. Match was played in London, organised by H&J friend of the show, Raymond Keene and live on C4 and highlights shown on BBC. Great times, chess at it's peak in the UK. Sad that Short is a dullard and quite stereotypical of the geek chess player, :roll: but hey he got hammered. :)

So FIDE stripped Kasparov and Short, had their title between Karpov and Timman who Short had beat, so lo, like the arrars, we have two titles, FIDE (establishment) and newcomer PCA. As Kasparov was best in the world and linear champ, that is the one numbered in the list of champions, listed as the Classical world championship.

Anyway, both continued, some players like Anand played in both and the PCA folded and went back into the FIDE fold, some say because Kasparov played IBMs Deep Blue yet the PCA was sponsored by Intel. Kramnik won the reunification match.

Note Kasparov was born in Azer, Azer, the beast of Baku, but represented Russia where he is still a political thorn in Putin's side. Image the sexpest standing for election :)

So on we go to third darts comparison. Kasparov (now Taylor) :) greatest player ever, unsurpassed ratings but getting an old man with the young contenders coming through. One or two he could swat away, but the onslaught was too much. A few won here and there and lo came a young boy from Norway, Magnus Carlsen.

New and fresh, ripe for the social meeja age, still how the fuck does he do modelling? Becomes world champion and takes ratings to ever higher levels. Can MvG do the same?
FIDE world champions 1993–2006:
Name Year Country
1 Anatoly Karpov 1993–1999 Russia
2 Alexander Khalifman 1999–2000 Russia
3. Viswanathan Anand 2000–2002 India
4. Ruslan Ponomariov 2002–2004 Ukraine
5. Rustam Kasimdzhanov 2004–2005 Uzbekistan
6. Veselin Topalov 2005–2006 Bulgaria
Classical world champions 1993–2006:
Name Year Country
13. Garry Kasparov 1993–2000 Russia
14. Vladimir Kramnik 2000–2006 Russia
Undisputed world champions 2006–present:
Name Year Country
14. Vladimir Kramnik 2006–2007 Russia
15. Viswanathan Anand 2007–2013 India
16. Magnus Carlsen 2013–present Norway
Mentioned Kasparov v Deep Blue earlier, another excellent documentary about the second match in 1997 which Kasparov lost. People say MvG is expressive, but Kasparov is a master of it, especially on the board. Not much of a poker face:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDe-uHsEMn8

Finally and same as in all sports, comparisons between the eras. Chess uses the ELO system, anyone who has played in a tournament or game online will have one. Super GM is 2700+, a few have been over 2800, Carlsen is currently 2863. Various comparisons between the eras, gets a bit complex but fascinating to see where old players rank and best runs and performances here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... ut_history

Enjoyed that, hope anyone who survived reading got something out of it, as Jerry says and off later to watch game 4.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Game 4 and Anand on black. A Sicilian, (man I hate that line, Butler.) but hey, I'm not playing for the world championship. Strength for Carlsen, tight in the middle, but Anand held well, nothing spectacular and draw.

Must say, after Anand's loss in game 2, thought he might crumble and as per last year draw out to defeat. Top, top, man, coming back and a draw on black. No doubt will lose with white today. :(

Jerry on game 4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVgol6ZIqUI

GM Daniel King. Not sure of the shirt but that is excellent analysis of the endgame and Anand playing it well and is it possible Carlsen in trouble:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCy6rOZabGM

First to 6.5 wins.

Carlsen 2 v 2 Anand.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Rainbowmonkey »

A handsome write-up, thanks and nice work Carlos. Just a quick first thought occurred, re 'Ruy Lopez who gave his name to the opening used in game 2...'

I was thinking about Darts as a comparison, I'm well into the overlap by the way, regarding scores/sequences of scores/checkouts which when they occur trigger an almost automatic reference by commentators to a yesteryear player who produced the particular shot in famous circumstances.

All I can think of is Deller's 138. Just about every single time that someone steps up to check out 138, they mention Deller, who did it to beat Bristow in the World final about 30 years ago, with Bristow having so cockily turned down the Bull. A kind of signature shot associated with a particular player. I've never thought about it before but you'd think there'd be more. Not even Taylor would seem to hold historical ownership of a particular checkout. I have my own personal ones (Barney 97, Part 77, Harrington 125) but those don't really resonate beyond my own head.

Does Chess have lots of moves/strategies which are named after players who made them their signature? I imagine that it does for some reason. I guess 'the Cruyff turn' would be the most obvious example of this in football.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Interesting RM. Chess obviously has trillions of possible moves. But so does the arrars from 501.

Yeah, chess openings are known for centuries, some stick like the Ruy Lopez, also called the Spanish. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_opening then you realise this game is a mindfuck.

Every variation of every opening has been studied to fuck. Most old Grandmasters will have a variation named after them, few have an opening, all a bit queer.

This is chess openings. And it is not a fun read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_opening

But yeah, a lot of name for plays. So a line may have a variation named after a GM. That line good at the time, maybe found to be bad. That line is still the line. But up to player if they play it.

Suppose yeah, if someone does an unusual checkout, but not really the same.

Still believe the comparisons are right,

Problem is as per, if you get serious, many games annotated (games known) to 15+ moves. Not fun for the amateur v the far too obsessed.

I say. Play and enjoy, if you are bothered by ratings, then fuck off. Love the game for the game.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Game 5 from yesterday. An interesting little tactical game, Queens Indian, but nay fireworks and a draw in 39 moves. Jerry's view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdMcd2ibr8w

GM Daniel King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUX5RU1RFYc

First to 6.5 wins.

Carlsen 2.5 v 2.5 Anand.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Rainbowmonkey »

Is 'form' a big aspect, Carlos? Players on hot streaks and cold streaks comparable to general individual sport?
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

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Why don't you sign up to chess.com RB and I will teach you how to play. You can sign up instantly with Facebook.

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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

DRAMA. Game 6 from today and a possible match changer. Another Sicilian and ladies off early and Carlsen concedes structure for space. Anand's rooks stuck on the eigth rank defending and then Carlsen error at move 26. :shock: Anand missed his chance, 26...Nxe5, Carlsen recovered and white crushed through forcing resignation. :(

Jerry gets into it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K86f27uuP0

GM Daniel King. When Danny boy starts his video, "There were dramatic events on the chessboard in Sochi today" you know things will be interesting: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj-T-7_WLKg

Halfway through and first to 6.5. Carlsen again has white for game 7.

Carlsen 3.5 - 2.5 Anand.
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Re: TF Chess Club 2 & World Chess Championship 2014

Post by Carlos J »

Rainbowmonkey HD wrote:Is 'form' a big aspect, Carlos? Players on hot streaks and cold streaks comparable to general individual sport?
Interesting, RM and suppose so. Much the same as individual sports, the top players are playing each other all the time. However in top level chess, most tournaments are round robin events, so getting off to a bad start ain't good for confidence but you have recovery time and it takes out more freak results.

For the avarage player In Britain there are congesses in cities, played Nottm and Derby. You'll get an odd Grandmaster, International Master and Fide Master playing an elite then a major and minor tournament for all players depending on rating.

Funny old events, you play 6 games, one Friday night, three on Saturday and two Sunday, Pretty heavy going but fun but if you lose Friday night, then Saturday morning, just have to get on with it. Every game is slate clean and all that, no point pondering.

Here though, not a knock out, but a one to one so yeah psychology comes in. Kasparov often seemed to beat players before a game was started, like you say Taylor does. Thought Anand might crumble after game 2 loss, but won game 3. This bad loss in game 6 is different though, and with Carlsen on white again, if Carlsen wins, goes two points ahead with five to play, can only see one winner.
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