Colin Murray

[Dr David Starkey]

Problem is, there's big money in football now - even if you are not that good. Even League Two players get £50k a year.

Say you are a parent on benefits and your kid is the best footballer in your district. They could become your meal ticket. No wonder they put pressure on them.

[tennisman]

Problem is, there's big money in football now - even if you are not that good. Even League Two players get £50k a year.

Say you are a parent on benefits and your kid is the best footballer in your district. They could become your meal ticket. No wonder they put pressure on them.

That is true, Doc.

But I don't think we are talking about a few selected examples of the benefit family /meal ticket star kid syndrome.

We're talking about an ignorant approach to developing kids in sport which has been well documented across the domain of junior football for some time.

At the Ajax academy, parents aren't allowed anywhere near the kids and if they start screaming and shouting, their kid is removed. A brutal but necessary policy.

The problem with football is that everyone thinks they know the game and they apply this 'adult / pro' model into their kids matches.

Would these same parents walk into their kids' schools and start teaching them?

Watching years of football on the terraces and the TV has nothing to do with how you coach kids in youth sports. The problem is that many parents and coaches, it seems, thinks that it does.

For me, it's quite simple; unless this changes, then the results of what is produced won't change.

The FA can pontificate about small sided games; the Premier League clubs can invest millions in their academies and at grassroots, we can start up as many teams and leagues as we want. But if we can't relate properly to the kids, we are not only doing them a massive dis-service but as far as how all that activity translates through to the professional game for a better end result with our players, we stand no hope.

[Michaelfatley]

The Chair of Truth.

And this has what exactly to do with sport?

Danny Murphy sweats too much......

A good example of Murray's teenager-ish Inbetweeners approach to everyone. A bit like a scorpion that can't resist stinging everything and Andy Goldstein bringing everything back to sex, it's never long before Murray gets personal. Next he'll be telling us whose socks smell.

To much extraneous crap surrounding and intertwined with everything.

Replace him with Brian Moore, Didi H. and Bob Mills.

I think that the Chair of Truth was suggested to Murray by Brian Moore. It was a technique for clearing the air that he had come across on a Union tour

[mark]

Problem is, there's big money in football now - even if you are not that good. Even League Two players get £50k a year.

Say you are a parent on benefits and your kid is the best footballer in your district. They could become your meal ticket. No wonder they put pressure on them.

That is true, Doc.

But I don't think we are talking about a few selected examples of the benefit family /meal ticket star kid syndrome.

We're talking about an ignorant approach to developing kids in sport which has been well documented across the domain of junior football for some time.

At the Ajax academy, parents aren't allowed anywhere near the kids and if they start screaming and shouting, their kid is removed. A brutal but necessary policy.

The problem with football is that everyone thinks they know the game and they apply this 'adult / pro' model into their kids matches.

Would these same parents walk into their kids' schools and start teaching them?

Watching years of football on the terraces and the TV has nothing to do with how you coach kids in youth sports. The problem is that many parents and coaches, it seems, thinks that it does.

For me, it's quite simple; unless this changes, then the results of what is produced won't change.

The FA can pontificate about small sided games; the Premier League clubs can invest millions in their academies and at grassroots, we can start up as many teams and leagues as we want. But if we can't relate properly to the kids, we are not only doing them a massive dis-service but as far as how all that activity translates through to the professional game for a better end result with our players, we stand no hope.

I'll be interested to observe as my daughter has just signed up with a local team. They're a really well established club with men's, women's boy's and girl's teams but at my daughter's age they are struggling due to low player numbers, mainly due to both Liverpool and Everton signing up so many players and then not letting them play for other teams. As for parents chasing the dream it is out there and even quite prevelant beyond the benefit claimants too. I know several lads who have been signed to mostly Liverpool (but a few others too) since the age of 7. Some of them are extremely good players for their age but others are not much better than average and are never going to make it at that level.

The worst example is a neighbour whose son was rejected by Liverpool at 8 years old, then signed for Everton weeks later. Everton released him after a season and he went to Tranmere for 2 seasons. They let him go at 11 and he then went and signed up with Accrington Stanley and has just started his second season there, his dad driving there and back 3 or 4 times a week for traning and matches. To be honest he would be much better placed with a solid local playing for fun club where he has a good chance of getting noticed if he is good enough. But for some people that is like giving up the dream.

[tennisman]

Problem is, there's big money in football now - even if you are not that good. Even League Two players get £50k a year.

Say you are a parent on benefits and your kid is the best footballer in your district. They could become your meal ticket. No wonder they put pressure on them.

That is true, Doc.

But I don't think we are talking about a few selected examples of the benefit family /meal ticket star kid syndrome.

We're talking about an ignorant approach to developing kids in sport which has been well documented across the domain of junior football for some time.

At the Ajax academy, parents aren't allowed anywhere near the kids and if they start screaming and shouting, their kid is removed. A brutal but necessary policy.

The problem with football is that everyone thinks they know the game and they apply this 'adult / pro' model into their kids matches.

Would these same parents walk into their kids' schools and start teaching them?

Watching years of football on the terraces and the TV has nothing to do with how you coach kids in youth sports. The problem is that many parents and coaches, it seems, thinks that it does.

For me, it's quite simple; unless this changes, then the results of what is produced won't change.

The FA can pontificate about small sided games; the Premier League clubs can invest millions in their academies and at grassroots, we can start up as many teams and leagues as we want. But if we can't relate properly to the kids, we are not only doing them a massive dis-service but as far as how all that activity translates through to the professional game for a better end result with our players, we stand no hope.

I'll be interested to observe as my daughter has just signed up with a local team. They're a really well established club with men's, women's boy's and girl's teams but at my daughter's age they are struggling due to low player numbers, mainly due to both Liverpool and Everton signing up so many players and then not letting them play for other teams. As for parents chasing the dream it is out there and even quite prevelant beyond the benefit claimants too. I know several lads who have been signed to mostly Liverpool (but a few others too) since the age of 7. Some of them are extremely good players for their age but others are not much better than average and are never going to make it at that level.

The worst example is a neighbour whose son was rejected by Liverpool at 8 years old, then signed for Everton weeks later. Everton released him after a season and he went to Tranmere for 2 seasons. They let him go at 11 and he then went and signed up with Accrington Stanley and has just started his second season there, his dad driving there and back 3 or 4 times a week for traning and matches. To be honest he would be much better placed with a solid local playing for fun club where he has a good chance of getting noticed if he is good enough. But for some people that is like giving up the dream.

Mark, I think the above and especially that last example sums up how we've completely lost the plot with what we're doing with our kids.

The pro clubs want them there for one reason and one reason only, to sift through them and hopefully find the pros of the future.

For all the talk by people like Saggers about clubs being 'Community organisations', this sort of process is not what I'd call a Community one.

Kids are dumped when it suits the clubs and usually with NO exit pathways into local lower level clubs.

It smacks of the worst form of youth sport crime for me; the exploitation of hope.

What we need is loads of places locally where kids can go and learn skills and play matches too but in a structured but fun environment where they are being encouraged with smiles not constantly judged by adults using what I call the 'pro model'.

This is not to say that you can't coach them as if they are young pros (as far as attitude and effort are concerned) but when they perform like the small kids they are, you have to be able to smile, say hard luck and or well done and get them to have another go. Set high standards but praise them for the smallest 'win'.

It works - trust me.

I absolutely agree with the creation of opportunities for the very best as they may well get held back if they aren't allowed to train and play at a higher level.

But I believe from all I've read, heard and been told that clubs are signing up large numbers of very young kids who are average at best, still learning (of course, at that age) in a sort of blanket approach to ensuring that they don't miss anyone.

Kids should be playing as much as possible, having as much fun as possible and learning in the process (as per my Free Play website article above).

I am not against competitive matches either as kids love competition. The problem with it is usually how the adults involved, parents and coaches, position the winning and the losing; kids, in my experience handle it very well usually with a pragmatic acceptance and a resilience which many adults would do well to learn from.

I'm not that great a fan of leagues and tables and loads of medals etc as I'm really not sure these are necessary.

Just get them playing - that's what's important.

All this training 3 times a week with hours in the car and not necessarily any match play at the weekends and restrictions in place so they can't play for anyone else is all nonsense.

The only saving grace might be if in the academies, the youngsters really were receiving the best coaching and based on an e-mail I received yesterday from a friend, this is evidently not the case.

I can't mention names for sensitivity reasons (my friend did) but my friend has a friend who is involved with Coach Education at a senior level and talked about the poor level of coaching going on in the academies of a number of pro teams in one region of the country (from PL to League 2).

Chris Green's book, Every Boy's Dream, about the academies, talks often about how while you'd expect the best youth coaches up to speed with all the best methods for developing kids would be in place, this is not the case and many are only there to do some time before rising up the coaching tree and too many Club Chairmen and Chief Executives talking in the board rooms about results and trophies as opposed to skill development and player development.

Mark, I hope your daughter has FUN and enjoys whatever she does and comes home looking forward to going back next time - these are the indicators to look for in whatever activity she is involved with, I'd suggest. If those conditions exist, she will have the best likelihood of developing (without realising it) while she has fun, the best way to do it.

[tennisman]

The Chair of Truth.

And this has what exactly to do with sport?

Danny Murphy sweats too much......

A good example of Murray's teenager-ish Inbetweeners approach to everyone. A bit like a scorpion that can't resist stinging everything and Andy Goldstein bringing everything back to sex, it's never long before Murray gets personal. Next he'll be telling us whose socks smell.

To much extraneous crap surrounding and intertwined with everything.

Replace him with Brian Moore, Didi H. and Bob Mills.

I think that the Chair of Truth was suggested to Murray by Brian Moore. It was a technique for clearing the air that he had come across on a Union tour

Thanks, Michael.

[delboy1983]

Said it before and the programme is getting even better.
Am talking about the Monday show with Murray ,Brian Moore and Perry Groves
They are excellent and gel very well

[Rainbowmonkey]

The day he's with Michael Gray and Des Kelly is really bad. Gray is so anxious to be witnessed ENJOYING HIMSELF GUYS the most; Kelly just irritates me.

The rest of the week though, it's good. Shocking, I know. This is the probably the only positive thing I've ever posted in TF discussion, and even here I've spent a whole paragraph whingeing like a grisly old bastard

[Boozios]

The day he's with Michael Gray and Des Kelly is really bad. Gray is so anxious to be witnessed ENJOYING HIMSELF GUYS the most; Kelly just irritates me.

The rest of the week though, it's good. Shocking, I know. This is the probably the only positive thing I've ever posted in TF discussion, and even here I've spent a whole paragraph whingeing like a grisly old bastard

GET OUT!!

[antdad]

Said it before and the programme is getting even better.
Am talking about the Monday show with Murray ,Brian Moore and Perry Groves
They are excellent and gel very well

Moore yes, Groves I wouldn't miss.

Judging by this thread there's enough to like for most people so in that respect the line up has been a refreshing change.

[Mittens]

Judging by this thread there's enough to like for most people so in that respect the line up has been a refreshing change.

^^^^^^^ This is right!

I think after years of mediocrity TS has unwittingly stumbled on something that might actually work*






* Which means they'll all be gone after Christmas!

[Reg]

Why the fuck did they just waste an hour talking to Alastair Campbell?

[Carlos J]

The Chair of Truth.
And this has what exactly to do with sport?
Danny Murphy sweats too much......
A good example of Murray's teenager-ish Inbetweeners approach to everyone. A bit like a scorpion that can't resist stinging everything and Andy Goldstein bringing everything back to sex, it's never long before Murray gets personal. Next he'll be telling us whose socks smell.
To much extraneous crap surrounding and intertwined with everything.
Replace him with Brian Moore, Didi H. and Bob Mills.

I think that the Chair of Truth was suggested to Murray by Brian Moore. It was a technique for clearing the air that he had come across on a Union tour

Thanks, Michael.

Agreed, tennis and excellent comparison to The Stain. it is a self-indulgent, look at us, we can take socalled banter irrelevance. Fair enough for a Lions tour, that is lots of people stuck together 24/7 for months. This is a radio show where they meet 3 hours once or twice a week so hardly worthy of clear the air sessions, especially on radio. As per, it can only get more ridicoulous, you smell, no you smell worse. Ha fucking ha. It is a risible concept

I can see Murray liking this aspect as it allows despite the banter, some err good truth radio, not refreshing, just dull, which is not that good for listeners. Still if the gobby Norn twat gets some self-realisation and works out he is the weakest link of the show, maybe some good.

As per, after seeing him and hearing him previously, was not overly excited about the Norn. But listening to bits over the days, there is a good show in there. Liking the different guests as per, Mills and Bunce, Murphy, Groves, Sotheton and even Gray can be half-decent, but nay, it is the glue that holds it together that is the weak link.

Like the Stain, everything about Murray is about Murray and the ego can only be curtailed so much. This show is so wanting a DK at the helm. It would be stunning.

Fawning over shite guests, not Primrose again, including H, oh wow we'll have another half hour of softer than a CBeebies interview and various arselicking others shows. Keep them onside, keep TS news on headlines for the rest of the day, It is poor.

But hey, the bog question. Shits and giggles back or Murray? Hmm. This type of show with a better presenter would be err brilliant. Murray is not that man though. Have to conclude, though, bring back the boys, err, lads, err seedy old man and pal from their desert prison. I miss Reidy chat.

[grandpiano]

Good show

Some of you will never be happy

[tennisman]

Has Murray been watching too much Family Guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGLrp3SX_s

Stop asking pub questions ('Who would you like to be friends with') and discuss some sports issues / topics.

PS 'If you had to walk the dog of any sports star, whose would you walk and what dog would you say NO to walking?

[Dr David Starkey]

Has Murray shagged your missus? OK, he's not to everyone's tastes but there is far, far worse on the station.

[AlcoholBrazil]

Has Murray shagged your missus? OK, he's not to everyone's tastes but there is far, far worse on the station.

Can he speak more slowly. I'd give him a go, but unfortunatley TS do not have a Listen Again at Half-Speed facility.

[Dr David Starkey]

Has Murray shagged your missus? OK, he's not to everyone's tastes but there is far, far worse on the station.

Can he speak more slowly. I'd give him a go, but unfortunatley TS do not have a Listen Again at Half-Speed facility.

That's more racist than an England manager's half-time team talk. He can't help his ethnic heritage.

[finchman]

Murray is fucking shit,he just started an interview with Gareth Southgate with a two minute rant about his boyhood football experiences,..........this cunt loves the sound of his own fucking voice,his `interviews` are appalling!

[Petingo]

Has Murray been watching too much Family Guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGLrp3SX_s

Stop asking pub questions ('Who would you like to be friends with') and discuss some sports issues / topics.

PS 'If you had to walk the dog of any sports star, whose would you walk and what dog would you say NO to walking?

I heard a couple of boys on talkSPORT around lunchtime on Sunday and they were doing sommat equally naff and a thought occurred to me.

All this kind of stuff was started by Danny Baker.

And Danny is such a talented broadcaster that he actually made it sound funny, interesting and real cutting edge, alternative radio.

Even today, no other broadcaster in England could make that red or brown sauce thing on his Saturday 5 Live programme listenable.

Now, I do think Colin is doing a decent job in that spot but I agree that the "pub question" type of feature ain't his thang.

Only Danny B can get away with it, IMO

[tennisman]

Has Murray been watching too much Family Guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGLrp3SX_s

Stop asking pub questions ('Who would you like to be friends with') and discuss some sports issues / topics.

PS 'If you had to walk the dog of any sports star, whose would you walk and what dog would you say NO to walking?

I heard a couple of boys on talkSPORT around lunchtime on Sunday and they were doing sommat equally naff and a thought occurred to me.

All this kind of stuff was started by Danny Baker.

And Danny is such a talented broadcaster that he actually made it sound funny, interesting and real cutting edge, alternative radio.

Even today, no other broadcaster in England could make that red or brown sauce thing on his Saturday 5 Live programme listenable.

Now, I do think Colin is doing a decent job in that spot but I agree that the "pub question" type of feature ain't his thang.

Only Danny B can get away with it, IMO

Interesting point about DB, Pet.

DB's 5Live show on Saturday morning is really 2 hours about absolutely nothing and yet I love it.

I suppose it's all down to a combination of what you want / expect out of a show against what they believe they are trying to deliver.

I think with Baker's show, you know that it is 2 hours of nonsense and I certainly, listen with that in mind, knowing that this is what I will get.

And Baker, like Paul Hawkesby, has a pithy and encyclopaedic ability to pull out reference points from just about anything / everywhere.

But with Murray, I'm never quite sure that he's worked out what he wants it to say on the tin, as he tries to be all things to all men; serious, funny, light, heavy, considered, extreme, smutty, PC etc etc etc. and I find it all gets too jumbled and ultimately cliched. He also makes out he's a star f**k**r (kowtow, kowtow) but actually inside, I reckon he thinks HE is the star.

I think he wants to be the sporting nerd that he is (which is OK) but feels the need to be one of the lads in the pub while still making out he can be part of some Wimbledon dinner party set. Too confused.

PS I once thought Max Rushden was ok but that warm up show is the biggest pile of self serving, narcissistic, mushy b/s possible, falling between every crack. It's a complete and utter waste of time.

[sjbarca]

Has Murray been watching too much Family Guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGLrp3SX_s

Stop asking pub questions ('Who would you like to be friends with') and discuss some sports issues / topics.

PS 'If you had to walk the dog of any sports star, whose would you walk and what dog would you say NO to walking?

I heard a couple of cunts on talkSPORT around lunchtime on Sunday and they were doing sommat equally naff and a thought occurred to me.

All this kind of stuff was started by Danny Baker.

And Danny is such a talented broadcaster that he actually made it sound funny, interesting and real cutting edge, alternative radio.

Even today, no other broadcaster in England could make that red or brown sauce thing on his Saturday 5 Live programme listenable.

Now, I do think Colin is doing a decent job in that spot but I agree that the "pub question" type of feature ain't his thang.

Only Danny B can get away with it, IMO

Corrected for accuracy!

[Boozios]

Has Murray been watching too much Family Guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGLrp3SX_s

Stop asking pub questions ('Who would you like to be friends with') and discuss some sports issues / topics.

PS 'If you had to walk the dog of any sports star, whose would you walk and what dog would you say NO to walking?

I heard a couple of boys on talkSPORT around lunchtime on Sunday and they were doing sommat equally naff and a thought occurred to me.

All this kind of stuff was started by Danny Baker.

And Danny is such a talented broadcaster that he actually made it sound funny, interesting and real cutting edge, alternative radio.

Even today, no other broadcaster in England could make that red or brown sauce thing on his Saturday 5 Live programme listenable.

Now, I do think Colin is doing a decent job in that spot but I agree that the "pub question" type of feature ain't his thang.

Only Danny B can get away with it, IMO

I heard 5 mins of Max and the Mumbling Mick 2 weeks ago - they had some back room cunt counting out how many beans were in a can of err...you guessed it. A mug had to ring in and guess how many.

Not since Cundy and Coke'ead's What's your favourite sandwich has there been such a fuckin' piss taking, no prep couldn't give a shit, gimme the money, time filling cobblers.

Not even the Candyman could spin gold from that lazy crap.

[tennisman]

Appraising this particular feature against the oft stated broadcasting mission of 'inform, educate and entertain', I'd say it is light on the first, non existent on the second and average on the third.

At least K & G addressed some issues (when they weren't gaffawing with their mullet wearing 1980's football mates about golf).

Is there an embargo on discussing the Champions League, for example?

[Basualdo]

Appraising this particular feature against the oft stated broadcasting mission of 'inform, educate and entertain', I'd say it is light on the first, non existent on the second and average on the third.

Seriously, I mean seriously. Stop mucking about.