Farage torpedoes himself

[colinthewarriormonkey]

All in all, a great night for the Tories. The killer moment was when Sturgeon said to Ed 'I can make you PM'. You could almost hear Labour's vote in England shrinking.

Cameron (& Clegg) not showing up was a dreadful miscalculation/blunder. The Tories are running a campaign as if they're 10pts ahead & cruising to victory, not fighting for every seat. Farage had a wobble & Cameron wasn't there to capitalise. Farage's performance will be forgotten. Cameron not turning up won't be.

Clegg wasn't allowed to go on by the BBC

He wanted to do it and seemed quite pissed off they wouldn't let him

Didn't complain very loudly before the debate did he. He's claiming victim status now the debate is over.

I heard him yesterday morning on LBC

Do you listen to LBC, Colin?

No - I was tuned in to Kiss FM when I heard him talking on LBC

[colinthewarriormonkey]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think it was the housing point that triggered Farage's outburst. I wouldn't argue that immigrants add to the housing demand ( but, presumably, emigrants add to the supply) but there are other reasons. The failure to build houses would be one; the increasing longevity another; and the trend towards single-person households. All Farage mentions (as did Nuttall at the meeting I went to the other night) is the immigrant element- which is what Sturgeon said to him. After a while you wonder whether they are genuinely interested in solving the problem, or that they like the fact that it exists, because it suits them.

A smart move would have been to condemn the right-to-buy measures from the Tories. That amounts to a bribe to householders. Housing Associations, shamefully now the dominant source of social housing, have rejected the idea. All it will do is give those people a nice bonus and nothing to improve supply. Cynical.

The people in the audience aren't "the common people" they are people engaged enough in politics and have enough free time to go and spend 5 hours in a studio somewhere on a Thursday night.

[Rantan Zero]

You could argue that the sentiment was "This guy's a twat and good on you for telling him so".

You're right, most people watching would probably think something along the lines of that . However i don't think Farage is interested in the likes of them. He's interested in the floaters, those who are not quite sure about voting UKIP. A little stunt like he pulled on the debate last night might just be enough to get some of those floaters on his side.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

He's interested in the floaters

It's been that sort of week

[colinthewarriormonkey]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

[the rotary club]

You could argue that the sentiment was "This guy's a twat and good on you for telling him so".

You're right, most people watching would probably think something along the lines of that . However i don't think Farage is interested in the likes of them. He's interested in the floaters, those who are not quite sure about voting UKIP. A little stunt like he pulled on the debate last night might just be enough to get some of those floaters on his side.

No, Farage is only campaigning to shore up his base - his support is declining over time.

As for the debate UKIPs support doesn't exceed 10% of the electorate, of course they are going to be outnumbered in a fair distribution of audience members.

[the rotary club]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

[Ralph]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

The only proper opinion poll conducted after the debate makes grim reading for the Tories. I bet there's more than one Tory PPC in a marginal seat quietly cursing Dave.

[Ralph]

Yes they supported Dimbleby but why is open to debate.

You could argue that the sentiment was "This guy's a twat and good on you for telling him so".

Because Farage was insulting them.

[Holden Mcgroyne]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

The only proper opinion poll conducted after the debate makes grim reading for the Tories. I bet there's more than one Tory PPC in a marginal seat quietly cursing Dave.

The one done for the Mirror that showed him getting 35%, the same as Labour are polling nationally ?

[Hillman avenger]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think it was the housing point that triggered Farage's outburst. I wouldn't argue that immigrants add to the housing demand ( but, presumably, emigrants add to the supply) but there are other reasons. The failure to build houses would be one; the increasing longevity another; and the trend towards single-person households. All Farage mentions (as did Nuttall at the meeting I went to the other night) is the immigrant element- which is what Sturgeon said to him. After a while you wonder whether they are genuinely interested in solving the problem, or that they like the fact that it exists, because it suits them.

A smart move would have been to condemn the right-to-buy measures from the Tories. That amounts to a bribe to householders. Housing Associations, shamefully now the dominant source of social housing, have rejected the idea. All it will do is give those people a nice bonus and nothing to improve supply. Cynical.

The people in the audience aren't "the common people" they are people engaged enough in politics and have enough free time to go and spend 5 hours in a studio somewhere on a Thursday night.

How else would you do it?
Held in a central London venue they would probably have to be there 1830-ish, so most workers could go, and of course if you weren't interested, you wouldn't have applied for a seat.
So what is your point?

[Ralph]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

The only proper opinion poll conducted after the debate makes grim reading for the Tories. I bet there's more than one Tory PPC in a marginal seat quietly cursing Dave.

The one done for the Mirror that showed him getting 35%, the same as Labour are polling nationally ?

He got the highest rating of the people taking part.

Latest Five Tweets From:" "

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[Roy Twing]

We all know how the BBC selects audiences hillman (I've actually been through the process and it is fair to say that the liberal luvvies ticking their boxes really do try to be unbiased from their liberal luvvie perspectives).
In this specific case however (and whoever actually carried out the selection) Dimbleby himself stated that the audience was representative of the parties present, NOT the country as a whole, - in other words, 80% left-wing, - which is why.

The BBC didn't select this audience. That's where Nigel got it wrong. His argument/whinge was undermined by the facts.

And as I keep trying to say, whether the BBC actually employed the selectors, or sub-contracted the work, it makes no difference.

How have you arrived at the 80% left wing figure? It sounds dubious say the least.

Assuming Dimbleby was correct, and the audience represented the parties present (rather than the general population, which is what they usually profess to aspire to), I would have though we could all agree at least on the fact that labour; plaid; SNP & the greens ( namely, 80% of the parties present) were all left-wing?

Well assuming you're correct why did Farage & UKIP agree to this arrangement? Bit late to start complaining after the programme has started.

Much the same reason as when he agrees to any BBC debate/interview, - the BBC pulls the strings, - it doesn't make his observation any less true.

And you're not going to win the audience round by calling them names.

True, but Farage did say that the 'real' audience was at home watching on TV. Anyone know how the home audience viewed the performances?

If Dave Cameron hadn't been such a big girls blouse & agreed to take part the audience would have presumably been made up of roughly 36% Tories?

True again, - so arguably, with the UKIP 15 (or so) percent, would have given a roughly 50:50 right/left split.

[Roy Twing]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

A similar view was taken by the Telegraph's journalists, and also a similar view by their readers (Farage got 44% when I looked earlier today)

But of course, the establishment isn't anti-UKIP, according to some on here.

[Ralph]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

The only proper opinion poll conducted after the debate makes grim reading for the Tories. I bet there's more than one Tory PPC in a marginal seat quietly cursing Dave.

The one done for the Mirror that showed him getting 35%, the same as Labour are polling nationally ?

He got the highest rating of the people taking part.

Latest Five Tweets From:" "

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Survation - Straight choice - Who would make the best PM Ed Miliband or David Cameron

45% Ed Miliband 40% David Cameron.

I thought Cameron was a huge asset to the Tory party?

[Hillman avenger]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

A similar view was taken by the Telegraph's journalists, and also a similar view by their readers (Farage got 44% when I looked earlier today)

But of course, the establishment isn't anti-UKIP, according to some on here.

As the "establishment" doesn't currently include UKIP, it's not surprising that they don't welcome it.
Or are you suggesting there is an "establishment conspiracy" to do UKIP down?
You are displaying another facet of your reluctance to accept reality. As UKIP has gained visibility, it has attracted the same media attention that the existing parties have had for decades. If you want to see a real hatchet job, collect all the coverage Miliband has been given over the last couple of years.
I think Farage has shot his bolt and it couldn't happen to a nicer man.

[Sadact7]

All in all, a great night for the Tories. The killer moment was when Sturgeon said to Ed 'I can make you PM'. You could almost hear Labour's vote in England shrinking.

Cameron (& Clegg) not showing up was a dreadful miscalculation/blunder. The Tories are running a campaign as if they're 10pts ahead & cruising to victory, not fighting for every seat. Farage had a wobble & Cameron wasn't there to capitalise. Farage's performance will be forgotten. Cameron not turning up won't be.

Clegg wasn't allowed to go on by the BBC

He wanted to do it and seemed quite pissed off they wouldn't let him

Didn't complain very loudly before the debate did he. He's claiming victim status now the debate is over.

I heard him yesterday morning on LBC

Do you listen to LBC, Colin?

No - I was tuned in to Kiss FM when I heard him talking on LBC

[Ralph]

We all know how the BBC selects audiences hillman (I've actually been through the process and it is fair to say that the liberal luvvies ticking their boxes really do try to be unbiased from their liberal luvvie perspectives).
In this specific case however (and whoever actually carried out the selection) Dimbleby himself stated that the audience was representative of the parties present, NOT the country as a whole, - in other words, 80% left-wing, - which is why.

The BBC didn't select this audience. That's where Nigel got it wrong. His argument/whinge was undermined by the facts.

And as I keep trying to say, whether the BBC actually employed the selectors, or sub-contracted the work, it makes no difference.

How have you arrived at the 80% left wing figure? It sounds dubious say the least.

Assuming Dimbleby was correct, and the audience represented the parties present (rather than the general population, which is what they usually profess to aspire to), I would have though we could all agree at least on the fact that labour; plaid; SNP & the greens ( namely, 80% of the parties present) were all left-wing?

Well assuming you're correct why did Farage & UKIP agree to this arrangement? Bit late to start complaining after the programme has started.

Much the same reason as when he agrees to any BBC debate/interview, - the BBC pulls the strings, - it doesn't make his observation any less true.

And you're not going to win the audience round by calling them names.

True, but Farage did say that the 'real' audience was at home watching on TV. Anyone know how the home audience viewed the performances?

If Dave Cameron hadn't been such a big girls blouse & agreed to take part the audience would have presumably been made up of roughly 36% Tories?

True again, - so arguably, with the UKIP 15 (or so) percent, would have given a roughly 50:50 right/left split.

Yes Farage came third behind Sturgeon & Miliband

[Roy Twing]

We all know how the BBC selects audiences hillman (I've actually been through the process and it is fair to say that the liberal luvvies ticking their boxes really do try to be unbiased from their liberal luvvie perspectives).
In this specific case however (and whoever actually carried out the selection) Dimbleby himself stated that the audience was representative of the parties present, NOT the country as a whole, - in other words, 80% left-wing, - which is why.

The BBC didn't select this audience. That's where Nigel got it wrong. His argument/whinge was undermined by the facts.

And as I keep trying to say, whether the BBC actually employed the selectors, or sub-contracted the work, it makes no difference.

How have you arrived at the 80% left wing figure? It sounds dubious say the least.

Assuming Dimbleby was correct, and the audience represented the parties present (rather than the general population, which is what they usually profess to aspire to), I would have though we could all agree at least on the fact that labour; plaid; SNP & the greens ( namely, 80% of the parties present) were all left-wing?

Well assuming you're correct why did Farage & UKIP agree to this arrangement? Bit late to start complaining after the programme has started.

Much the same reason as when he agrees to any BBC debate/interview, - the BBC pulls the strings, - it doesn't make his observation any less true.

And you're not going to win the audience round by calling them names.

True, but Farage did say that the 'real' audience was at home watching on TV. Anyone know how the home audience viewed the performances?

If Dave Cameron hadn't been such a big girls blouse & agreed to take part the audience would have presumably been made up of roughly 36% Tories?

True again, - so arguably, with the UKIP 15 (or so) percent, would have given a roughly 50:50 right/left split.

Yes Farage came third behind Sturgeon & Miliband

Reference?

[Ralph]

We all know how the BBC selects audiences hillman (I've actually been through the process and it is fair to say that the liberal luvvies ticking their boxes really do try to be unbiased from their liberal luvvie perspectives).
In this specific case however (and whoever actually carried out the selection) Dimbleby himself stated that the audience was representative of the parties present, NOT the country as a whole, - in other words, 80% left-wing, - which is why.

The BBC didn't select this audience. That's where Nigel got it wrong. His argument/whinge was undermined by the facts.

And as I keep trying to say, whether the BBC actually employed the selectors, or sub-contracted the work, it makes no difference.

How have you arrived at the 80% left wing figure? It sounds dubious say the least.

Assuming Dimbleby was correct, and the audience represented the parties present (rather than the general population, which is what they usually profess to aspire to), I would have though we could all agree at least on the fact that labour; plaid; SNP & the greens ( namely, 80% of the parties present) were all left-wing?

Well assuming you're correct why did Farage & UKIP agree to this arrangement? Bit late to start complaining after the programme has started.

Much the same reason as when he agrees to any BBC debate/interview, - the BBC pulls the strings, - it doesn't make his observation any less true.

And you're not going to win the audience round by calling them names.

True, but Farage did say that the 'real' audience was at home watching on TV. Anyone know how the home audience viewed the performances?

If Dave Cameron hadn't been such a big girls blouse & agreed to take part the audience would have presumably been made up of roughly 36% Tories?

True again, - so arguably, with the UKIP 15 (or so) percent, would have given a roughly 50:50 right/left split.

Yes Farage came third behind Sturgeon & Miliband

Reference?

Only proper opinion poll that was done that I'm aware of.

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Not all bad news for Farage though

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+ he turned up for the debate unlike some Prime Ministers who I won't name.

[colinthewarriormonkey]

The audience was selected by a third party, in line with what the broadcasters agreed before any of it started.

There is no evidence that Mori is "the BBC's lapdog".

There is really a serious problem here with Twing and Farage both that they are so sure they speak for the common people that when the common people express themselves, and disagree with them, they can't cope. They decide they aren't talking to the "common people" but a group selected to disagree with them. It never occurs, apparently, that the reason "the common people" think differently- or at least some do- is because THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the problem with the like of Farage is that he spends so much time with people who share his views and yes men that he's deluded into thinking his views are more popular with the public than they really are.

I think he may be more popular with people than the MSM realise.

The Daily Mail declared that Wee Jimmy Krankie had won it, and obviously their editorial stance you would think would reflect that of their readers.

Here is the poll they are running as it stands right now.

It's meaningless drivel not worth discussing. Twanger is fond of the same sort of shit from AOL

The only proper opinion poll conducted after the debate makes grim reading for the Tories. I bet there's more than one Tory PPC in a marginal seat quietly cursing Dave.

The one done for the Mirror that showed him getting 35%, the same as Labour are polling nationally ?

The BBC poll of polls shows labour on 34% tories on 32% and UKIP on 15%

They got 3% of the vote in 2010.

That is a massive increase in 5 years.

[finchman]

Top man Farage,Miliband and Sturgeon both said yes we need to be tough on immigration without telling us how they were going to fucking do it.At least Farage has an immigration policy unlike the rest of the bullshitting cunts on the panel.

[subsub]

Farage has an immigration policy

Has he?

He kept that quiet...

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Was it a chocolate torpedo in his undercrackers?

[Sadact7]

Was it a chocolate torpedo in his undercrackers?

White chocolate